Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

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  • Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

    In its future plans the CFC might consider providing Canadian clubs incentives to try to establish or maintain more of what I would call mega-clubs: clubs with 100+ members :). The RA club in Ottawa, for example, used to have 100+ members.

    I've recently been informed that in Europe and possibly elsewhere, clubs are robust and they in effect act as sponsors for big open tournaments, for strong players, as well as what we'd call class players, who play in these tournaments together, but with no class prizes. This is what permits the state of affairs - i.e. no class prizes - that Tom and (I think) Jean have advocated for a long time. Unfortunately they never mentioned that clubs in fact have played such a big role in how nations other than Canada or the USA manage to do without class prizes in typical tournaments. I had trusted that it was simply that only FIDE ratings had been used in such nations, and until recently there was no such thing as a class FIDE player.

    In the CFC Handbook, in the past if not the present as well, clubs are in fact SUPPOSED to be taken into account when choosing CFC Governors, i.e. to try to have as many different clubs represented as possible. This condition may be being ignored, at least at times (e.g. the RA club in Ottawa has several Eastern Ontario CFC Governors) simply because volunteers are hard to come by in some provinces/leagues. However if an attempt to have more clubs represented by Governors was made, that might be a first step towards building stronger clubs, or even mega-clubs, in Canada. Clearly the founders of the CFC meant that Canadian clubs be the foundation of the CFC, possibly based on the European model.

    Once many strong clubs are established, as in Europe, we can therefore then be in a better position to decide whether it's worth doing without class prizes, as Tom and Jean might wish, or we can reap any number of other benefits of having many strong clubs.
    Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
    Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer

  • #2
    Re: Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

    Hi Kevin:

    Club membership in Canada was dropping for a number of years 5 - 10 years ago. About 5 years ago, Scarborough CC again started growing, slowly. But we heard during this period that other clubs were still losing members, or staying stagnant re membership level ( not sure if that was true between 2005 - 8; maybe other clubs can chime in here ). But since about 2008, it seemed that the situation was turning around and clubs were again doing better ( can other clubs confirm this? ).

    Scarborough CC is now over 100 members, a situation that has not occurred since 2000. We must be doing something right ( we were only getting 14 players out to swisses at our near death experience time about 2005 ). So it can be done.

    I think the CFC has to find a way to help clubs promote themselves better - some type of assistance with sample material, press release material, contact with media, etc. I hope the new Public Relations Coordinator position will help fill this void ( assuming it passes at the AGM ), and that at the AGM we will have a good candidate step forward ( a similar position on the books was not filled year after year before this ).

    I'm not sure however, in this internet age, about developing numerous " mega-clubs " of over 100 members. SCC is in Toronto, and that helps. But it is a goal worth investigating.

    Also, SCC has 2 governors ( and a third member has applied for appointment to a GTCL vacancy ), so SCC is trying to take an active role in the CFC, and press for more CFC/club liason.

    Bob

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    • #3
      Re: Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

      Originally posted by Kevin Pacey View Post
      In its future plans the CFC might consider providing Canadian clubs incentives to try to establish or maintain more of what I would call mega-clubs: clubs with 100+ members :). The RA club in Ottawa, for example, used to have 100+ members.
      There is something in Handbook:
      http://www.chess.ca/section_21.shtml
      2106. AFFILIATE PROGRAM
      2108. Benefits

      Each affiliate receives a 10% rebate on all CFC (not provincial) dues collected, provided the memberships are remitted to the CFC properly, (free forms are available upon request) and postmarked within 7 days of collection. This is not a discount to be taken off at source, but will be remitted quarterly from the CFC to the Affiliate. Amounts under $10.00 will be held back to the next quarter, except that all accounts will be paid out at fiscal year end.
      Thus, 100x36x0.1 = 360 Enough for the Club championship 1st place :)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

        I was a CFC Governor for a year back in 1988-9, and despite seeing no reference in the modern online CFC Handbook to trying to have as many clubs as possible represented by CFC Governors, I distinctly recall reading that that's the way it should be in a constitution (CFC or OCA) back in the 1980s.

        What's the value of having mega-clubs in the internet age? Well, ideally there would be many mega-clubs in Canada, which would be well over 100 members each, that require CFC membership of club members. Mega-clubs that are located relatively close to each other can act as co-sponsors (or at least provide ample organizers and playing sites) for [big] CFC rated tournaments. Then there are the possibilities for lasting, and possibly strong, team leagues, like the Bundesliga in Germany. Not to mention the abundance of CFC members supplied, who congregate at the clubs. Good things start to happen when chess players are massed together :D.
        Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
        Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

          The Provincial Associations have sole authority for selecting the CFC Governors.

          The OCA has split their governors up by region since forever, although from what Bob says Toronto Region must split their reps into clubs.

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          • #6
            Re: Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

            Hi Fred:

            No, Toronto Region is not election by club. At the GTCL AGM, all CFC members present can run and vote, regardless of any affiliation.

            It just so happens, that Maurice Smith, SCC President, is also a Life Governor/CFC Treasurer, and I got elected at the AGM, and I happen to be an SCC member. The third member applying to be appointed to a vacancy, is on his own standing as a GTCL CFC member ( he just happens to also be an SCC member ).

            Also, I'll quibble a bit with your statement that the Provincial Associations have sole authority for selecting the CFC Governors. The Handbook makes it clear that the CFC members in the province are to elect all their governors. They are not to be appointed by the Provincial Association Executive or governors ( we just amended the OCA bylaws last year to make this clear - the bylaw had had the OCA Governors electing the CFC Governors from Ontario ). What the Provincial Association does have is the right to check that all candidates nominated for CFC Governor are eligible. For example, recently at the GTCL AGM, a member got nominated and elected. But then the OCA checked and found his CFC membership was not in good standing when he was nominated. So they declared his nomination/election invalid. This is why GTCL currently has the 8th CFC Governor position vacant at the moment.

            Bob

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            • #7
              Re: Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

              Originally posted by Egidijus Zeromskis View Post
              There is something in Handbook:
              http://www.chess.ca/section_21.shtml


              Thus, 100x36x0.1 = 360 Enough for the Club championship 1st place :)
              I was aware of the affiliate program for clubs that you provided a link to.

              A way forward for the CFC might be to give incentives for having greater numbers of members in a club to an affiliated club. Incentives could be per member, and/or there could be a bonus for having 100+ members, 150+ members, etc.
              Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
              Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

                Originally posted by Fred McKim View Post
                The OCA has split their governors up by region since forever, although from what Bob says Toronto Region must split their reps into clubs.
                While its true the OCA has always split governors up by region, that's not inconsistent with saying that they at least used to have a requirement (on paper anyway) to represent as many clubs with governors as possible too. It's too bad I don't know where to find copies of older constitutions (CFC and/or OCA) to verify my memory.
                Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
                Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

                  Originally posted by Kevin Pacey View Post
                  A way forward for the CFC might be to give incentives for having greater numbers of members in a club to an affiliated club. Incentives could be per member, and/or there could be a bonus for having 100+ members, 150+ members, etc.
                  Maybe the CFC should take a long and hard look at defining and evaluating the services it is trying to sell before initiating such a program.

                  If I were to spend $36 on a CFC membership, how would this money be allocated? I may or may not like the answers but at least I would be in a position to evaluate whether I am to support their cause.

                  The CFC has accumulated very little goodwill over the years and, from my perspective, it lost most of what was left when Bob Gillanders (sp?) was terminated for unclear reasons. In my opinion, the CFC needs to clearly define and publicize its programs for members to want to help it again.

                  I am just an outsider with regular contacts with three members and the impression I am getting from these three members is although they want to help the CFC, they believe their $36 is spent foolishly year after year.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

                    Originally posted by Kevin Pacey View Post
                    ... I've recently been informed that in Europe and possibly elsewhere, clubs are robust and they in effect act as sponsors for big open tournaments, for strong players, as well as what we'd call class players, who play in these tournaments together, but with no class prizes. This is what permits the state of affairs - i.e. no class prizes - that Tom and (I think) Jean have advocated for a long time. ... Once many strong clubs are established, as in Europe, we can therefore then be in a better position to decide whether it's worth doing without class prizes, as Tom and Jean might wish ...
                    So, you see the "mega-club" as a hustle for raising prize money for elite players? Please correct me if I've misunderstood you.
                    "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
                    "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
                    "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

                      Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post
                      So, you see the "mega-club" as a hustle for raising prize money for elite players? Please correct me if I've misunderstood you.
                      That's certainly the impression I took away from his post. Otherwise, his big idea is to get more CFC members by having ..... more CFC members. And that it's never occured to club organizers anywhere that they try to get new members.

                      But Kevin being Kevin, nothing will come of it. He certainly doesn't have any realistic idea of the money involved in the Bundesliga (my estimate would be ~$50,000/yr + per team, confirmed by some of the comments here http://www.chessninja.com/dailydirt/...iga-07-r89.htm) . He seems to think those teams are funded purely by the financial contribution of clubs of 100 members. Good luck getting a club member to toss in an extra $500 a year for the privilige of being represented by a semi-professional team.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

                        The CFC membership needs to be divided to the point that we know where our money goes. We know that in Ontario our $43 includes Ontario fees but what does the rest include.

                        If I knew that X goes to provincial dues, Y goes to Olympic Fund, Z goes to Junior programs, AA goes to Clubs, BB goes to Foundation, CC goes to Administration DD goes to the Magazine,then hey you might be able to promote CFC memberships because our membership is helping various groups.


                        But if someone in the CFC today said to me join the CFC to get games rated I'd laugh in their face and go buy a case a beer.

                        You want to promote chess then pull down the blinders and show us where our money goes. Right now I doubt my CFC membership covers anything except the right to get a CFC rating and a Magazine the rest is probably pissed away .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

                          Originally posted by John Brown View Post
                          Right now I doubt my CFC membership covers anything except the right to get a CFC rating and a Magazine the rest is probably pissed away .
                          A magazine?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

                            Originally posted by Kevin Pacey View Post
                            ...

                            I've recently been informed that in Europe and possibly elsewhere, clubs are robust and they in effect act as sponsors for big open tournaments, for strong Once many strong clubs are established, as in Europe, we can therefore then be in a better position to decide whether it's worth doing without class prizes, as Tom and Jean might wish, or we can reap any number of other benefits of having many strong clubs.
                            My goal for clubs is that they become an entry point for players (both adults and children) to get used to things like using a clock, but in a more informal atmosphere than weekend events. Instead, it seems that clubs are getting more serious while tournaments, up to and including the various national championships, are getting less serious.
                            "Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Possible future CFC goal: foster mega-clubs

                              We should be more precise in our language. A club with one hundred members would be a hecto-club and not a mega-club. A mega-club would be possible only on the internet and only in some alternate universe to the one that we inhabit. I wonder what it would take to launch a successful kilo-club. Such a club would only be within the realm of possibility in a very large city or perhaps a remote town where there was no other entertainment possibilities.

                              Not so long ago there were kilo-clubs for bingo in this town. There are lots of empty former bingo halls that attest to this. Imagine if we could convert them to chess clubs and fill them. Imagine if we could fill just one of them in this town and fill another like it in every metropolitan centre.

                              I think that Kevin is on to something as far as the need to promote large chess clubs which can become self sustaining centres of chess activity. I think that the CFC could be more valuable by developing and passing on specific knowledge on how to grow and develop such chess clubs rather than by kicking back a portion of the CFC membership to the clubs. That is chump change. Hand out a chess club business plan with a step by step approach on how to grow a chess club from first meeting to setting up successful monthly tournaments to recruiting new members. Start some leagues with team competitions. Get kids interested and find a way to hang on to them when they get older. Get more girls and women playing and you could double the numbers without doing anything different or better. Grow chess play and the CFC will benefit far more than trying to raise the dues on a diminishing pool of players.

                              There is a certain demand for chess among children and their parents. During the school year we have a class for the advanced kids and demand is only limited by the size of the room. I am constantly being asked about chess lessons but unfortunately after 40 hours at work and what will probably work out to about 70 or more games in the first half of 2010, I don't have the time or energy to devote myself to giving private lessons without eating into my playing time which I don't want to do right now. Maybe when I can retire in about 15 years that will be more of an option.

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