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Just one thing. I have always understood that you were restricted re prizes, to your own class. Since you are C class, I don't think you can win an U 1800 B class prize. You asked abouit that earlier in the tournament, and I didn't see anyone answer you.
Do you have some information that you can qualify for a B-class prize, as well as the C-class prizes ( never heard of that in one big swiss, except for the top prizes )?
Just one thing. I have always understood that you were restricted re prizes, to your own class. Since you are C class, I don't think you can win an U 1800 B class prize. You asked abouit that earlier in the tournament, and I didn't see anyone answer you.
Do you have some information that you can qualify for a B-class prize, as well as the C-class prizes ( never heard of that in one big swiss, except for the top prizes )?
Bob
Yes, you can win a higher category prize than your own - however, you may not win BOTH.... I asked one of the arbitrators about it. If there are two Class C players above all Class B players, one would win the Class B prize and one would win the Class C prize.
Last edited by Matthew Scott; Saturday, 17th July, 2010, 11:12 AM.
you want the organizers to give a personal explanation to each player who questions the pairings?
If pairings looks suspicious, a player should ask and must get an answer.
Code:
"45 David Poirier (1855 : W : 4.0) Jingle A. Kho (2120 : B : 4.0)
46 Matthew Scott (1506 : B : 4.0) Mavros Whissell (2120 : B : 4.0)
47 Erwin Casareno (2105 : W : 4.0) Robert Roller (1937 : B : 4.0)"
you want the organizers to give a personal explanation to each player who questions the pairings? on the basis that they don't like them, or don't understand them, or they could be different?
Or they could be completely wrong as in round 3 :)
I've seen this come up before at large tournaments (it normally doesn't happen at a weekend Swiss). I think it would have been good for the organizers to have posted at the tournament site a clear explanation of the pairing system they were going to use. If they are ranking players based on performance and not pre-tournament rating, then state so clearly. If they are using "accelerated pairings", they should have also spelled out clearly what that means and how it will work.
Other things worth informing the players about:
a) how to properly offer a draw
b) how to resign a game (i.e. don't just offer to shake hands since that's considered to be a draw offer)
c) don't adjust pieces when your opponent's clock is running
d) don't ask for your opponent's scoresheet (to correct your own) when your opponents clock is running
e) the tournament policy about writing moves before you make them (although announcing it may just lead to nuisance complaints)
f) how to claim a draw on repetition
I have seen disputes on ALL of these things at the past half-dozen tournaments I've gone to.
(Note: I haven't been to the tournament site and for all I know this stuff *is* posted.)
If pairings looks suspicious, a play should ask and must get an answer.
Code:
"45 David Poirier (1855 : W : 4.0) Jingle A. Kho (2120 : B : 4.0)
46 Matthew Scott (1506 : B : 4.0) Mavros Whissell (2120 : B : 4.0)
47 Erwin Casareno (2105 : W : 4.0) Robert Roller (1937 : B : 4.0)"
He would get White based on the pairing against a 2120 player who is due Black. As for the pairing itself, like I mused elsewhere and which Jesse Wang also observed, the player rankings in a score group are probably being based on in-tournament performance (which IMHO creates a mathematical mess).
He would get White based on the pairing against a 2120 player who is due Black. As for the pairing itself, like I mused elsewhere and which Jesse Wang also observed, the player rankings in a score group are probably being based on in-tournament performance (which IMHO creates a mathematical mess).
Steve
The in tournament performance is totally screwed up though because of the Round 3 pairings.
Steve Douglas said:
"...I think it would have been good for the organizers to have posted at the tournament site a clear explanation of the pairing system they were going to use. If they are ranking players based on performance and not pre-tournament rating, then state so clearly. If they are using "accelerated pairings", they should have also spelled out clearly what that means and how it will work.
Other things worth informing the players about:
a) how to properly offer a draw
b) how to resign a game (i.e. don't just offer to shake hands since that's considered to be a draw offer)
c) don't adjust pieces when your opponent's clock is running
d) don't ask for your opponent's scoresheet (to correct your own) when your opponents clock is running
e) the tournament policy about writing moves before you make them (although announcing it may just lead to nuisance complaints)
f) how to claim a draw on repetition"
I think what is needed is some kind of FAQ section on the CFC site (or even on this site) dealing with the above issues, as an alternative to directing people to the CFC handbook or some other lengthy formal document.
I just finished taking the arbiter's course where we learned all the ins and outs of doing swiss pairings. I ignored, like most people I believe, that seeding (rating) is practically the last factor to be taken into account. Colour equalization for each player, colour equalization for the entire point bracket, changing the downfloater and upfloater from point groups from the previous round. All these things seem to take priority over ratings, and a lot of people (myself included up until now) actually put more weight on this.
I think what is needed is some kind of FAQ section on the CFC site (or even on this site) dealing with the above issues, as an alternative to directing people to the CFC handbook or some other lengthy formal document.
Hi Ken:
I agree. It would be good for the CFC to have on its site a document that could be read there, but also available and downloaded and modified by individual tournament directors so that they can post/provide it at their tournament.
The document should be in plain English (and plain French).
I volunteered my time at a number of CMA events (such as the OCC) and the one thing that *every* parent and/or player wanted to know was how the pairing system worked. To my list of things to include would be:
g) an explanation of touch-move
h) how clocks work and time controls work
i) how increments work
j) the prohibition against anybody but the TD or the opponent pointing out a flag fall
k) the requirement to write your moves down
l) the fact that your opponent can force you to update your scoresheet based on his while *your* clock runs
m) what happens if you forfeit a game
n) how to withdraw from a tournament without honking people off
... and numerous other things that frequently come up in OTB tournament play, particularly in tournaments where there may be newcomers.
Your pairing certainly looks a little odd, but we don't have enough information to judge its "correctness." This would require complete player and colour histories (i.e., a wallchart in standings order) and knowledge of which pairing rules are being used. Swiss-Sys is an American program and normally uses American rules; FIDE pairings can be specified, but FIDE has several different systems and Swiss-Sys does not state which one it is using. [In my opinion Swiss-Sys is not able to produce pairings which follow the CFC rules.]
That being said, there is a pairings menu choice on Swiss-Sys called "Pairing Logic" which shows the changes the program has made to what it considers natural pairings. This would be a good starting point in trying to understand why the computer has
given you the pairing it has (although sometimes Swiss-Sys makes changes for no explainable reason, in my experience).
Re: Canadian Chess Open Championship: Pairing Issues
I thought the ratings are FIDE ratings for foreign players and the Canadian ratings for Canadians. How does the graph look when you use the players FIDE ratings on the first 20 boards?
I thought the ratings are FIDE ratings for foreign players and the Canadian ratings for Canadians. How does the graph look when you use the players FIDE ratings on the first 20 boards?
1 Kovalyov, Anton Verdun, QC 2599
2 Bluvshtein, Mark Toronto, ON 2583
3 Spraggett, Kevin Toronto, ON 2575
4 Le Siège, Alexandre Montreal, QC 2528
5 Charbonneau, Pascal Outremont, QC 2513
6 Tyomkin, Dimitry North York, ON 2498
7 Roussel-Roozmon, Thomas Montreal, QC 2488
8 Sambuev, Bator Toronto, ON 2478
9 Gerzhoy, Leonid Toronto, ON 2471
10 Zugic, Igor Toronto, ON 2462
11 Biyiasis, Peter Los Gatos - CA, BC 2450
12 Teplitsky, Yan Markham, ON 2448
13 Porper, Edward Edmonton, AB 2441
14 Hébert, Jean Longueuil, QC 2429
15 Suttles, Duncan Vancouver, BC 2420
16 Pelts, Roman Thornhill, ON 2417
17 Quan, Zhe Richmond Hill, ON 2412
18 Krnan, Tomas Burlington, ON 2408
19 Adam, Dr. Valerian Prince Rupert, BC 2407
20 Kriventsov, Stanislav Burnaby, BC 2406
21 Hansen, Eric Calgary, AB 2405
22 Samsonkin, Artiom Toronto, ON 2401
23 Noritsyn, Nikolay Richmond Hill, ON 2401
24 Hartman, Brian Caledonia, ON 2396
25 Panjwani, Raja Kitchener, ON 2395
26 Yoos, John C. (Jack) Vancouver, BC 2389
27 Hergott, Deen Ottawa, ON 2385
28 Cummings, David Toronto, ON 2375
29 Lawson, Eric Montreal, QC 2373
30 Micic, Chedomir Niagara Falls, ON 2366
31 O'Donnell, Tom Ottawa, ON 2366
32 Tayar, Jonathan Toronto, ON 2356
33 Amos, Bruce Toronto, ON 2355
34 Cheng, Bindi Burnaby, BC 2354
35 Glinert, Stephen Toronto, ON 2349
36 Pechenkin, Vladimir Edmonton, AB 2345
37 Livshits, Ron Pickering, ON 2336
38 Coudari, Camille Montreal, QC 2325
39 Stone, Raymond Windsor, ON 2321
40 Vranesic, Zvonko Islington, ON 2320
41 Thavandiran, Shiyam Toronto, ON 2318
42 Piasetski, Leon Vancouver, BC 2316
43 Jiang, Louie Verdun, QC 2312
44 Stevens, Christian Toronto, ON 2310
45 Hamilton, Robert Ottawa, ON 2285
46 Duong, Thanh Nha La Prairie, QC 2278
47 Nurmi, Peter Don Mills, ON 2275
48 Selick, Paul Toronto, ON 2275
49 Vaingorten, Yaaqov Richmond Hill, ON 2275
50 Baragar, Fletcher Winnipeg, MB 2271
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