Short comment about accelerated pairings

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  • Short comment about accelerated pairings

    this is not intended to be a full answer to some of the other questions about pairings on this site but I'll give my take on it.

    Firstly, I agree that some of the pairings do not appear to conform to what one might regard as "normal" and when I say "normal" i mean
    1 vs 6, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 8, 4 vs 9, 5 vs 10.

    that being said, since it was announced that accelerated pairings would be used, this does not guarantee that the exact FIDE pairings will occur necessarily during the rounds of accelerated pairings.

    one thing that would help is to understand what accelerated pairings are supposed to be for.

    one important goal of accelerated pairings is to reduce more rapidly the number of players in the top point group, making it easier to identify a possible clear winner. another goal of accelerated pairings is to make it difficult for players in the bottom half of the crosstable to maintain perfect scores (reducing the number of low rated players appearing on the top boards).

    Now some people are going to say "Wait! there were some low rated players on top boards in some rounds!"

    I didn't say PREVENT. people saw larger rating differences in the round 3 pairings BECAUSE there were fewer large rating differences in the previous two rounds. in a big tournament with a large overall rating range, you simply cannot eliminate the big rating differences entirely and still pair it like a regular swiss. the more you do to reduce rating differences in the first two rounds, the larger you will make SOME rating differences in rounds 3 and 4. I don't think this can really be avoided. i do think that "OVERALL" in the whole tournament over all the rounds there will be fewer large rating differences.


    the accelerated pairings are supposed to HELP people get norms, because it a) makes it less likely that strong players will get opponents far below their rating in the first couple of rounds and b) makes it tougher for the low rated players to make it up to the top boards later on, by pairing mid level players with fewer points against weaker players with more points, thus eliminating a larger number of weaker players from the higher point groups. there may be players who think the pairings worked against their norm chances, but I do not believe this is the fault of accelerated pairings. this is the fault of the general haphazardness of the whole swiss pairing system for large groups of players. you need some luck in some cases to get pairings favourable to your norm chances.


    As for the perceived anomalies regarding the 1vs 10, 2vs 9, 3 vs 8, 4 vs 7, 5 vs 6 type of pairings that seemed to surface in some parts of the tournament particularly in round 3, I can't at the moment offer a detailed reason why that happened (in terms of how the software is programmed, that is) However I can offer a rationale for why it is a sensible thing for an accelerated pairing system to do.

    The reason is that pairing like 1 vs 10, 2 vs 9, 3 vs 8 etc does a BETTER JOB OF PREVENTING THE LOWER RATINGS FROM MAKING THEIR WAY TO THE TOP BOARDS, since the lowest players (8, 9, 10) in the hypothetical group are getting paired against the toughest players in the group (1, 2, 3).

    is this different from what players may be accustomed to? YES.
    does it give people a reason to think something could be going wrong? I suppose so, if there isn't an explanation for why it is going on.

    IS THIS TYPE OF PAIRING CONSISTENT WITH THE OBJECTIVES OF ACCELERATED PAIRINGS? ABSOLUTELY! it takes more lower rated players out of the higher point groups faster. So in my view, some of the pairing method used by the computer may be throwing people off, but I do not believe the pairings are doing something that doesn't make sense. To fulfil the goals of accelerated pairings, this method of high vs low in the mid ranges in my opinion may actually work better than the regular method of swiss pairings. (thus is is not "equivalent' to "random" pairings, which would do nothing to accomplish the objective of accelerated pairings.)


    anyway that's my two cents. it may be tough for some to take my word for it when I make comments about the general statistical behaviour of the whole tournament (such as when I say "generally lower rated players will get removed from the top point group), but I do believe I have a good ability to look at large mathematical systems and perceive trends that ought to occur based on what the rules seem to be.


    i do recognize that some of the concerns about pairings are legitimate concerns based on what a lot of players (and tournament directors, too) are used to hopefully this response helps add more sense to what has been going on.


    In defense of Hal Bond, the decision of the system of pairings used in the tournament was made at the organizer level and then he was asked to use that method. In defense of the pairing method, I disagree that it did not make sense (though I can't expect everyone to share my perspective there). I do agree that it was different than expected.

    in defense of the organizers choosing this method of pairing, accelerated is a common approach for big events and they had no way of anticipating that there could be complaints of the nature that we have seen arise. We use the standard program that is compatible with sending rating reports to the CFC, the organizers asked Hal Bond to run double accelerated pairings, this is what he did, and the pairings you saw were the result of this program running double accelerated pairings. If someone wants to say the pairings were "done wrong" the shortest answer I can give is that the pairings were done by the program of choice for the event. If the computer program does not in fact pair the tournament according to what would be viewed as the correct method, ultimately this matter would have to be taken up with the creators of the pairing software I would suppose. But I do think there is a legitimate rationale for the top vs bottom method in the mid sections during the acclerated rounds, unexpected as it may have been.

    Bryan Lamb.
    Last edited by Bryan Lamb; Saturday, 17th July, 2010, 09:10 PM. Reason: none

  • #2
    Re: Short comment about accelerated pairings

    There is absolutely nothing that can defend the incompetence that occurred in Round 3, and the subsequent refusal to fix the problem.

    The fact that this occurred at a NATIONAL Open, where presumably the best are supposed to play, is sad.

    It does little to make me want to invest more time in Over the Board tournaments; especially since we've seen that not only can the pairings be setup in an entirely arbitrary fashion, but when they are, you have absolutely no recourse.

    There are very few players in the tournament between the ages of 15 and 50.... I suspect that the state of Canadian Chess, 20 years from now, will be sad indeed.

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    • #3
      Re: Short comment about accelerated pairings

      Bryan, I understand your logic but ironically you may have made a great case that the priorities in play are wrong. Specifically, the idea that norms are important in a Canadian Open has been pushed hard by a few individuals but it seems overdone to me. Secondly, the idea that lower rated players must face an even tougher task to win games ( by design ) seems wrong to me as well, especially if you have cash prizes involved.

      eg " The reason is that pairing like 1 vs 10, 2 vs 9, 3 vs 8 etc does a BETTER JOB OF PREVENTING THE LOWER RATINGS FROM MAKING THEIR WAY TO THE TOP BOARDS, since the lowest players (8, 9, 10) in the hypothetical group are getting paired against the toughest players in the group (1, 2, 3). "

      So let's say you're some improving player and you enter the Open. You pull off a giant upset or two early in the event. So what occurs next. Well, I suppose you might continue doing it all event and get a norm. But this seems overly ambitious for most. More then likely, you'll fall off a bit. But the system you are championing will likely make that fall much harder ( because you'll be playing the very best players in your point group every round ). Certainly this can happen in any open event, but this new system makes it far more pronounced.
      Last edited by Duncan Smith; Sunday, 18th July, 2010, 03:22 AM.

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      • #4
        Re : Short comment about accelerated pairings

        Originally posted by Bryan Lamb View Post

        The reason is that pairing like 1 vs 10, 2 vs 9, 3 vs 8 etc does a BETTER JOB OF PREVENTING THE LOWER RATINGS FROM MAKING THEIR WAY TO THE TOP BOARDS, since the lowest players (8, 9, 10) in the hypothetical group are getting paired against the toughest players in the group (1, 2, 3).
        In that exemple isn't the no 10 player already playing on first board ? To me that does not seem to be an effective method to prevent him FROM MAKING HIS WAY TO THE TOP BOARDS. It rather looks like a direct elevator to the sky...

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        • #5
          Re: Re : Short comment about accelerated pairings

          Originally posted by Jean Hébert View Post
          In that exemple isn't the no 10 player already playing on first board ? To me that does not seem to be an effective method to prevent him FROM MAKING HIS WAY TO THE TOP BOARDS. It rather looks like a direct elevator to the sky...
          It's a way to assign arbitrary pairings to keep players out of winning their categories.

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          • #6
            Re : Re: Re : Short comment about accelerated pairings

            Originally posted by Matthew Scott View Post
            It's a way to assign arbitrary pairings to keep players out of winning their categories.
            Doesn't that sound a bit paranoid to you ? Why would anyone want to prevent Matthew Scott or anybody else from winning his category ? Now of course there is Zeljko K but that's another story.
            Mistakes are generally made in good faith, but the good faith often quickly dies out when the time comes to correct and take responsibility for those mistakes. And that is where real problems start.

            To yield when one is wrong is good sense; to yield when one is right is to be married.

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            • #7
              Re: Re : Re: Re : Short comment about accelerated pairings

              Originally posted by Jean Hébert View Post
              Doesn't that sound a bit paranoid to you ? Why would anyone want to prevent Matthew Scott or anybody else from winning his category ? Now of course there is Zeljko K but that's another story.
              Mistakes are generally made in good faith, but the good faith often quickly dies out when the time comes to correct and take responsibility for those mistakes. And that is where real problems start.

              To yield when one is wrong is good sense; to yield when one is right is to be married.
              oh so now I don't want specific people to win prizes???? you really enter tupsy-turvy land when you disagree with Mr Hebert it seems and paranoia land with Mr Scott

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              • #8
                Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Short comment about accelerated pairings

                Originally posted by Zeljko Kitich View Post
                oh so now I don't want specific people to win prizes????
                And no sense of humor to top it all ? You need :):) and :D:D ?

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                • #9
                  Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Short comment about accelerated pairings

                  Originally posted by Jean Hébert View Post
                  And no sense of humor to top it all ? You need :):) and :D:D ?
                  only a fool laughs at something that's not funny

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                  • #10
                    Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Short comment about accelerated pairings

                    Originally posted by Zeljko Kitich View Post
                    only a fool laughs at something that's not funny
                    Tell me this was a "quote"! Wouldn't want to think you made it up.....:p:p
                    Fred Harvey

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                    • #11
                      Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Short comment about accelerated pairings

                      Originally posted by fred harvey View Post
                      Tell me this was a "quote"! Wouldn't want to think you made it up.....:p:p
                      well I did make it up, but I'm sure someone somewhere said something like this, just too lazy to look it up - likely it was Mr T from the A team, he had lots of quotable quotes about fools

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                      • #12
                        Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Short comment about accelerated pairings

                        Originally posted by Zeljko Kitich View Post
                        only a fool laughs at something that's not funny
                        Where I live, when we kill a pig everybody laughs. Except the pig.
                        -Edgar Faure

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                        • #13
                          Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Short comment about accelerated pairings

                          Originally posted by Jean Hébert View Post
                          Where I live, when we kill a pig everybody laughs. Except the pig.
                          -Edgar Faure
                          animal cruelty, now that's funny

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                          • #14
                            Re: Short comment about accelerated pairings

                            Bryan Lamb's short comment on accelerated pairings looks pretty long to me!

                            I'll keep my comment on accelerated pairings very short: I see no reason, related to either mathematics or chess, to use them in the Canadian Open, unless there were to be more than 528 entrants for the nine-round Swiss format event. That number -- 528 -- consists of 2 raised to the ninth power, where nine represents the number of rounds in the tournament.

                            I've said it before and I'll say it again: if organizers want international norms to be possible in the Canadian Open in the future, with many titled international players on hand, many who have been secured using money coming from sponsors and players' entry fees, then USE SECTIONS. Limit entry to the top section to players who are rated over 2100; in other words, those who have already proven they are pretty strong, and who therefore may have a chance to score a norm. Anybody else who wants to play a GM at the Canadian Open, play in a simul.

                            I think it was IM Tom O'Donnell who once wrote in 'En Passant', some 20 years ago, that there were something like 15 to 20 untitled Canadians who could make their requisite IM norms in Europe. In other words, those players were strong enough to do it, but in Canada they would rarely if ever get the chance. And the Canadian Open is supposed to be our premiere event, one would think, and it should be those players' best opportunity for scoring norms. And people wonder why few if any norms are made!?

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                            • #15
                              Re: Short comment about accelerated pairings

                              Originally posted by Frank Dixon View Post
                              I'll keep my comment on accelerated pairings very short: I see no reason, related to either mathematics or chess, to use them in the Canadian Open, unless there were to be more than 528 entrants for the nine-round Swiss format event. That number -- 528 -- consists of 2 raised to the ninth power, where nine represents the number of rounds in the tournament.
                              2^9 = 512, not 528 :)

                              And if the number of players exceeds the mathematical maximum for the number of rounds to handle, using accelerated pairings won't necessarily solve the problem of having two high-rated players finish with "perfect" scores.

                              Steve

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