Saying 'Check'

[Jason Lohner]

Every tournament I've been to frowns upon saying 'check' to your opponent. Is this an official rule? If so, where would I find the official rule that says this. I have checked the CFC website and the FIDE handbook and can't find any such official rule. Just curious. :)

[Fred McKim]

Re: Saying 'Check'

Off the top of my head I think this is the explanation:

In tournament play you are not allowed to talk to your opponent during a game except to offer a draw (and I suppose to decline or accept).

If you checkmate your opponent, ending the game then "Checkmate" would be OK and if you find you are stalemated, ending the game then "Stalemate" would be OK. If you end the game by resigning then "I resign" would be OK.

Think of it as the same thing as saying "e4" to your opponent on your first move :-)

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: Saying 'Check'

Every tournament I've been to frowns upon saying 'check' to your opponent. Is this an official rule? If so, where would I find the official rule that says this. I have checked the CFC website and the FIDE handbook and can't find any such official rule. Just curious. :)

Yes. In general you are forbidden to say anything to your opponent. The rules outline the few cases where you can and how you can. There is no specific rule against saying "check", it is simply part of the overall rule that in formal tournament play you are not allowed to speak to or otherwise distract your opponent.

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: Saying 'Check'

Hi Jason:

I'm not an arbiter, but this is what I understand:

1. You cannot talk to your opponent, except to offer a draw or resign ( and I think to advise you are pausing the clock to call the arbiter );

2. So you cannot say " check " to your opponent ( this is an unofficial practice that has grown up and is illegal ).

Bob

[Ken Kurkowski]

Re: Saying 'Check'

I think saying 'check' is part of a traditional 'casual chess' culture, not frequently encountered in modern tournament play. Some of the older guys still like to do it. I recall that when I first learned the moves from my European-born dad, he taught me not only to say 'Schach' (Geman/Polish for 'check'), but also 'Garde', when attacking the Queen.

[Fred McKim]

Re: Saying 'Check'

As a Chess Instructor, in training games, I routinely say check when I think it is benficial for the opponent - obviously it depends on the skill level of the player involved.

As players mature they realize that more experienced tournament players don't say check and will generally follow suit (and of course there are always the humerous exceptions that want to say it loud enough in a deep voice that the whole room can here - kind of a "Mr Bean thing")

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Saying 'Check'

Hi Jason:

I'm not an arbiter, but this is what I understand:

1. You cannot talk to your opponent, except to offer a draw or resign ( and I think to advise you are pausing the clock to call the arbiter );

2. So you cannot say " check " to your opponent ( this is an unofficial practice that has grown up and is illegal ).

Bob

Ok, so you don't say "Check" and your opponent doesn't see the check and makes an illegal move....

Are you allowed to say "Ummmm, you were in check, the move you just made is illegal."

Or do you have to go chase down the arbiter, bring him or her over, and have the arbiter tell the opponent that?

[Fred McKim]

Re: Saying 'Check'

Technically, you probably need to stop the clock and get the arbiter.

Less formally I think you use your own good judgement.

This doesn't happen too often in tournaments with experienced players....

[Vlad Rekhson]

Re: Saying 'Check'

Ok, so you don't say "Check" and your opponent doesn't see the check and makes an illegal move....

Are you allowed to say "Ummmm, you were in check, the move you just made is illegal."

Or do you have to go chase down the arbiter, bring him or her over, and have the arbiter tell the opponent that?

Yes, you are supposed to stop the clock, call the arbiter and make the claim. The arbiter will then reinstate the position that was there before the illegal move was made and add two minutes to your clock. If this was the third infraction in the game, or if it occured in blitz, the game will be declared won by you.

7.4
a.
If during a game it is found that an illegal move, including failing to meet the requirements of the promotion of a pawn or capturing the opponent’s king, has been completed, the position immediately before the irregularity shall be reinstated. If the position immediately before the irregularity cannot be determined the game shall continue from the last identifiable position prior to the irregularity. The clocks shall be adjusted according to Article 6.13. The Articles 4.3 and 4.6 apply to the move replacing the illegal move. The game shall then continue from this re-instated position.

b.
After the action taken under Article 7.4.a, for the first two illegal moves by a player the arbiter shall give two minutes extra time to his opponent in each instance; for a third illegal move by the same player, the arbiter shall declare the game lost by this player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Saying 'Check'

Yes, you are supposed to stop the clock, call the arbiter and make the claim. The arbiter will then reinstate the position that was there before the illegal move was made and add two minutes to your clock. If this was the third infraction in the game, or if it occured in blitz, the game will be declared won by you.

7.4
a.
If during a game it is found that an illegal move, including failing to meet the requirements of the promotion of a pawn or capturing the opponent’s king, has been completed, the position immediately before the irregularity shall be reinstated. If the position immediately before the irregularity cannot be determined the game shall continue from the last identifiable position prior to the irregularity. The clocks shall be adjusted according to Article 6.13. The Articles 4.3 and 4.6 apply to the move replacing the illegal move. The game shall then continue from this re-instated position.

b.
After the action taken under Article 7.4.a, for the first two illegal moves by a player the arbiter shall give two minutes extra time to his opponent in each instance; for a third illegal move by the same player, the arbiter shall declare the game lost by this player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.

Ok, now here's the kicker:

If you stop your opponent's clock before chasing down the arbiter (because your opponent made an illegal move, because you didn't say "Check"), and your opponent failed to see the check),

and your opponent reacts by speaking to you, such as saying "What are you stopping the clock for?"

can you claim a win because your opponent spoke to you illegally?

Maybe the rule about not speaking should be amended to something like this:

At any time during a game, either player may stop the clock ONCE ONLY DURING A PARTICULAR TURN TO MOVE BY THE OTHER PLAYER and speak to the other player. The duration of such an occurence should not last more than (insert suitable time frame here, i.e. 1 minute). The opponent must allow that amount of time before restarting the clock, or the player who stopped the clock may restart it before that full time has elapsed.

So what this means: every time I make a move during a game and hit the clock, to start my opponents time, I may interrupt his or her thinking time for say 1 minute, or less if I restart the clock, to say something to him or her. I would have to turn on a 1 minute timer device to count down my allowable speaking time.

Why allow this? Well, poker allows players talking to each other and even trying to influence each other, as long as no profanity is used. People watch poker on TV. Maybe more people would watch chess (on TV or in person) if the players were more human and less machine.

Just a thought.... people like watching human interaction.

[Vlad Rekhson]

Re: Saying 'Check'

Ok, now here's the kicker:

If you stop your opponent's clock before chasing down the arbiter (because your opponent made an illegal move, because you didn't say "Check"), and your opponent failed to see the check),

and your opponent reacts by speaking to you, such as saying "What are you stopping the clock for?"

can you claim a win because your opponent spoke to you illegally?

Maybe the rule about not speaking should be amended to something like this:

At any time during a game, either player may stop the clock ONCE ONLY DURING A PARTICULAR TURN TO MOVE BY THE OTHER PLAYER and speak to the other player. The duration of such an occurence should not last more than (insert suitable time frame here, i.e. 1 minute). The opponent must allow that amount of time before restarting the clock, or the player who stopped the clock may restart it before that full time has elapsed.

So what this means: every time I make a move during a game and hit the clock, to start my opponents time, I may interrupt his or her thinking time for say 1 minute, or less if I restart the clock, to say something to him or her. I would have to turn on a 1 minute timer device to count down my allowable speaking time.

Why allow this? Well, poker allows players talking to each other and even trying to influence each other, as long as no profanity is used. People watch poker on TV. Maybe more people would watch chess (on TV or in person) if the players were more human and less machine.

Just a thought.... people like watching human interaction.

No one said that talking to an opponent can cause someone to be forfeited, unless it happens repeatedly. I think that the current rules are simple and adequate enough to deal with this situation. If the opponent asks you why you stopped the clock, thats perfectly legitimate, but you can just either approach the arbiter or tell him that you will make the claim. To me its just common sense.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Saying 'Check'

No one said that talking to an opponent can cause someone to be forfeited, unless it happens repeatedly. I think that the current rules are simple and adequate enough to deal with this situation. If the opponent asks you why you stopped the clock, thats perfectly legitimate, but you can just either approach the arbiter or tell him that you will make the claim. To me its just common sense.

That's ok, Vlad, I was using exaggeration to make a point.

We've seen plenty of threads on this board about how can we make chess more sponsorable, more appealing to the public. My point is that it's not just the game itself that is an obstacle, but the way in which the game is presented. Chess has a reputation (among the general non-playing public) as boring. What contributes to this is the fact that spectators are forced to watch emotionless, robot-like machines. Rules prohibiting players speaking to each other under almost any circumstances, even to announce check, are against the interests of chess, IMO.

[Vlad Rekhson]

Re: Saying 'Check'

That's ok, Vlad, I was using exaggeration to make a point.

We've seen plenty of threads on this board about how can we make chess more sponsorable, more appealing to the public. My point is that it's not just the game itself that is an obstacle, but the way in which the game is presented. Chess has a reputation (among the general non-playing public) as boring. What contributes to this is the fact that spectators are forced to watch emotionless, robot-like machines. Rules prohibiting players speaking to each other under almost any circumstances, even to announce check, are against the interests of chess, IMO.

I am all for ideas that would make chess more appealing, but it should still be chess! The fact of the matter is that chess is not poker and players need to concentrate very hard at all times of the game to play their best. When I play a friendly blitz game I can talk to my opponent as well, but you just can't have that in competitive play.

[Lucas Davies]

Re: Saying 'Check'

Why would you, unless you're like 5?

[Patrick Kirby]

Re: Saying 'Check'

I once saw someone at a tournament announce "Mate in 5" to his opponent. The funny part was that he was wrong and the position was actually mate in 4, so he was forfeited.