Appearance Fees (Ballpark)

[Josh Guo]

I was having a discussion with a friend the other day. Anyone has an approx. on how much appearance fee is paid to a 2500 GM playing in Cdn. open? Also what about 2600-2700 GM?

Thanks,

[Alex Ferreira]

Re: Appearance Fees (Ballpark)

I was having a discussion with a friend the other day. Anyone has an approx. on how much appearance fee is paid to a 2500 GM playing in Cdn. open? Also what about 2600-2700 GM?

Thanks,

Hi Josh,

Don't know if you'll have any luck with organizers disclosing that kind of information here ;)
In any case, I think it varies a lot, and while some players get appearance fees up to the thousands (depending on rating, 2700+), others take a tour in North America while organizers cover their accommodation, and also of course provide a handsome prize fund. I think often an appearance fee would be inversely proportional to the prize fund.

----

I went to Greece this Summer and played in a tournament there. There were several GMs and IMs on a chess circuit in the region. Both of the tournament in the island of Crete provided the same conditions to elite players (I am going from memory here, but I think this is pretty accurate):
- Free accommodation to all players rated above 2500. Full meals as well for those who were 2600+ (at different restaurants around the city)
- Free entry fee to anyone rated above 2300 (these are FIDE ratings of course)
- Discount of 50% in hotel for players above 2400
(women with ratings up to 100 less points than the ones above would get the same deal - so free hotel + meals for 2500+, just hotel 2400+, etc...)

I can't remember what the prize fund was, but taking into consideration that there were about 20 GMs and 15 IMs taking part, I imagine it was reasonable.

This was advertised on their website and the conditions were the same for the annual tournaments in Rethymno as well as Paleochora (I played in Paleochora)

----


Alex F.

[Josh Guo]

Re: Appearance Fees (Ballpark)

Ahh.. "conditions" - that's the word ppl use. I get what you're saying alex :)

So let me ask another Q. Is there not a general standard for these conditions? I know sponsorship is always an issue in the chess world. But isn't it better to be transparent when it comes to the business side of things? At the very least, I hope when organizers go to RBC or Telus and ask for 10 or 20k, they would disclose how those money will be used.

I know some ppl don't share the perspective, but forgive me, i'm a 20 something professional in downtown Toronto. When my friends ask me, "how much money do chess players make?", i really don't have a good answer except its probably not a good idea to become pro unless you're really talented.

I just think if people knows, it would be better for the game. The reality is, our society is becoming more money-oriented - just the way it is, which is why poker has become so popular.

Anyways, its friday afternoon. Its been a long week, go ahead and bash my capitalist view :)

[Erik Malmsten]

Re: Appearance Fees (Ballpark)

I don't think GMs make much of their income from playing in tournaments in North America - it's a bonus if they win a top prize. The ones visiting North America are often on vacation and will do well to break even. There are two few money tournaments here and great distances to travel. They can make money by giving simults and lectures, but mainly through teaching and writing (books, newspaper columns, online blogs).

[Alex Ferreira]

Re: Appearance Fees (Ballpark)

Ahh.. "conditions" - that's the word ppl use. I get what you're saying alex :)

So let me ask another Q. Is there not a general standard for these conditions? I know sponsorship is always an issue in the chess world. But isn't it better to be transparent when it comes to the business side of things? At the very least, I hope when organizers go to RBC or Telus and ask for 10 or 20k, they would disclose how those money will be used.

I know some ppl don't share the perspective, but forgive me, i'm a 20 something professional in downtown Toronto. When my friends ask me, "how much money do chess players make?", i really don't have a good answer except its probably not a good idea to become pro unless you're really talented.

I just think if people knows, it would be better for the game. The reality is, our society is becoming more money-oriented - just the way it is, which is why poker has become so popular.

Anyways, its friday afternoon. Its been a long week, go ahead and bash my capitalist view :)

Hi,

I imagine... that the information is disclosed to sponsors, but not too sure how it works. I bet in some cases it's up to the organizers how to distribute funds, especially when the sponsors are not and may not care about all the behind-the-scenes details.
I think the reason why these things are not so public in North America is fear or concern ;-) to insult someone, or offer less or more, or get into what's cheap or what's expensive, strange competitions. I think Canada is still very much a newbie nation when it comes to high profile chess events.

In the conditions about the tournament I mentioned in Greece, clearly it's open to whoever they want. But I think in Canada professionals, local or even visiting are so few, that organizers deal with them on a specific-case basis, which is a lot like an anarchy.

Either way, it's probably never a good idea to disclose such things on chesstalk. Because it's actually chess related, involves people who get things done, and some people consider it sensitive.


Alex F.

[Hugh Brodie]

Re: Appearance Fees (Ballpark)

An inactive Canadian GM told me recently that he would play in a weekend Swiss if he were offered an appearance fee of at least $1000.

[Vlad Rekhson]

Re: Appearance Fees (Ballpark)

Ahh.. "conditions" - that's the word ppl use. I get what you're saying alex :)

So let me ask another Q. Is there not a general standard for these conditions? I know sponsorship is always an issue in the chess world. But isn't it better to be transparent when it comes to the business side of things? At the very least, I hope when organizers go to RBC or Telus and ask for 10 or 20k, they would disclose how those money will be used.

I know some ppl don't share the perspective, but forgive me, i'm a 20 something professional in downtown Toronto. When my friends ask me, "how much money do chess players make?", i really don't have a good answer except its probably not a good idea to become pro unless you're really talented.

I just think if people knows, it would be better for the game. The reality is, our society is becoming more money-oriented - just the way it is, which is why poker has become so popular.

Anyways, its friday afternoon. Its been a long week, go ahead and bash my capitalist view :)

The exact conditions of appearance fees will depend on the prize fund and a variety of other issues. Often the exact amount depends solely on negotiations with specific players and can vary widely (very widely!) which is a big part of why those things are not usually made public. If I were you, I would contact the organizers of the upcoming Canadian Open to see what type of prize-fund is likely and how you could collaborate (for example if you have specific GMs that you want to invite.)

[Brian Hartman]

Re: Appearance Fees (Ballpark)

Hello,

One interesting idea that Blasko Gabric and Frank Szarka introduced when I served with them organizing the 1978 Canadian Open (Hamilton, Ontario) was utilizing their local business connections to individually sponsor a GM. For example, a local Hungarian pool hall owner paid for GM Guyla Sax's travel and appearance fee.

Off topic; I have been involved with several organizers over the years, along with some attempts on my own, and what I have always attempted to solve was how to develop a sustainable model - you can reasonably easily use connections and hold a good one-time event, but how does one create an evolving program that provides a foundation to grow from its success (in terms of events - obviously CMA already does this for kids and chess). That discussion I would always be interested in and support.

Brian

[Vlad Dobrich]

Re: Appearance Fees (Ballpark)

Hello,

One interesting idea that Blasko Gabric and Frank Szarka introduced when I served with them organizing the 1978 Canadian Open (Hamilton, Ontario) was utilizing their local business connections to individually sponsor a GM. For example, a local Hungarian pool hall owner paid for GM Guyla Sax's travel and appearance fee.

Off topic; I have been involved with several organizers over the years, along with some attempts on my own, and what I have always attempted to solve was how to develop a sustainable model - you can reasonably easily use connections and hold a good one-time event, but how does one create an evolving program that provides a foundation to grow from its success (in terms of events - obviously CMA already does this for kids and chess). That discussion I would always be interested in and support.

Brian

After the Canadian Open this summer, I met with Brian Fiedler to discuss what to do next (He wants to organize an Olympiad in 2016 or 2018!)
My strongest suggestion was to not get overly ambitious. Brian has obtained some serious sponsorships in the C.O. as well as the Toronto Open 2009.
What I suggested is needed is a permanent liaison person to connect with sponsors.
When a sponsor agrees to prepare a check, arrive with the liaison whom you introduce. The liaison eventually follows up by presenting the sponsor with a nice thank you letter, an inscribed plaque, and photos of prizes being awarded to the winner under the sponsor's banner.
The liaison continues ongoing contacts with the sponsor keeping them abreast of future chess tournaments in the region to see if one might be suitable for that particular donor.
The liaison officer would need to be paid for their ongoing effort, possibly on a percentage basis. That person should be nicely dressed and attractive to the sponsor (I suggested Dina Kagramanov :) as a possible).
Eventually, an entire slate of potential sponsors could be built up some of whom would like to be tied in to major events while others might prefer a more modestly priced local event.