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Looking at the vote, maybe it will end up in the Kitchener Waterloo area.
It would be poetic justice if the CO had to be held in a different province.
I don't see an over-abundance of bids for the CO. It is quite likely that the CFC would accept a lone bid provided it meets whatever minimum standards are required for the CO. Of course, I believe it is theoretically possible for the CFC to reject the only bid (or all bids) but I don't see that as a likely outcome.
Perhaps the Toronto bidders will re-engineer their bid so that it would be just for the CO (this is what I gather is happening). I don't get the feeling that there are other CO bids lurking out there that might now come out of the woodwork.
I don't think having the CO in Toronto necessarily implies it will be a financial success or any other sort of success. Of course, I think it wise to try to have it in a major city (I am sure debates about what constitute a "major city" can now begin).
I think we will see a Toronto 2011 Canadian Open Bid come forward from the prior Toronto CYCC/CO group. Apparently at the very start, they were just intending to submit a CO bid only, but then later decided to join it with the CYCC bid.
Their losing bid was quite good, as confirmed by the split governor voting. There were a lot of good features about it. If these would be retained in a CO Bid, I would think it would be very attractive, as against a " no frills " Canadian Open bid by Hal Bond for Guelph, should he want to compete with the Toronto Bid, should it arise ( Hal did put his CO bid forward conditionally , contingent upon the Richmond Hill Bid winning. But it was also in the light of there being at the time no other CO Bid. It is not clear what Hal may say if a new CO bid does arise from the Toronto group - and Bob G has indicated that the executive is having some discussions with the TO people to this end ).
I don't think having the CO in Toronto necessarily implies it will be a financial success or any other sort of success. Of course, I think it wise to try to have it in a major city (I am sure debates about what constitute a "major city" can now begin).
IMHO
Some high rank chess players were comparing chess to tennis. The Canadian players/organizers might do it too :) Rogers Cups (Canada(ian) Masters or Open) are held in Montreal and Toronto in successive years. Chess Open could rotate over provinces. (It has own +&- :)
I think we will see a Toronto 2011 Canadian Open Bid come forward from the prior Toronto CYCC/CO group. Apparently at the very start, they were just intending to submit a CO bid only, but then later decided to join it with the CYCC bid.
Their losing bid was quite good, as confirmed by the split governor voting. There were a lot of good features about it. If these would be retained in a CO Bid, I would think it would be very attractive, as against a " no frills " Canadian Open bid by Hal Bond for Guelph, should he want to compete with the Toronto Bid, should it arise ( Hal did put his CO bid forward conditionally , contingent upon the Richmond Hill Bid winning. But it was also in the light of there being at the time no other CO Bid. It is not clear what Hal may say if a new CO bid does arise from the Toronto group - and Bob G has indicated that the executive is having some discussions with the TO people to this end ).
Bob
Bob,
If the bidders were voting, is it not a conflict of interest?
The president votes to break a tie. Take away the biders votes.
There's actually more to the story. After the vote, Chess Institute of Canada presented a bid for the Canadian Open only, at the Westin Harbour Castle in Toronto. CFC Executive is deliberating. As Hal graciously offered to withdraw the Guelph bid while they do so, we are expecting the Open to be in Toronto again, and for CYCC and CO groups to work together to promote chess. Happy endings all around.
There's actually more to the story. After the vote, Chess Institute of Canada presented a bid for the Canadian Open only, at the Westin Harbour Castle in Toronto. CFC Executive is deliberating. As Hal graciously offered to withdraw the Guelph bid while they do so, we are expecting the Open to be in Toronto again, and for CYCC and CO groups to work together to promote chess. Happy endings all around.
David :-)
That is great news. The Westin location is excellent and very accessible.
This was posted by Bob Gillanders on the CFC board:
Congratulations to Richmond Hill.
I [Bob G.] posted this message from Lyle on the governors board in the wee hours this morning:
Gentlemen, this has been the closest vote in recent CFC history!
Richmond Hill (14) Armstrong, Bond, Brammall, Craft, Gillanders, Haley, Jin, Mallon, Marghetis, McDonald, Moore, Nadeau, Nunes, von Keitz
Toronto (12) Barron, Birarov, I Bluvshtein, M Bluvshtein, Craver, Dutton, Field, Leblanc, McKim, Palsson, Smith, Zeromskis
Abstentions: none
Good luck to the Richmond Hill organizers and I hope they have a great tournament!
Lyle Craver
Secretary, Chess Federation of Canada
ps. The Executive are now exploring a Canadian Open only bid from the Toronto team.
In my opinion it is a positive sign that two groups presented strong bids for the CYCC. Each bid was distinctive and presented compelling reasons why their model for the 2011 CYCC was best. This is good for chess in Canada.
What is not good is that only 26 of the 60 CFC governors voted. Not even 50%. Voting turnouts in municipal, provincial and federal elections tend to be low but you get on the voters list by virtue of having Canadian citizenship and a pulse. Not too high a bar to get over. Consequently I can understand why we see voter apathy in Canadian elections. But I do not see why the turnout to vote on the CYCC bids was so low.
By being CFC governors, these individuals are saying implicitly that they are interested in seeing chess and the CFC prosper. However, their actions say quite the opposite. I would go so far to say that by not voting they are insulting the hard work that the bidders put into their proposals.
So why would someone want to be a CFC Governor and not want any input into one of the most important decisions of the year? Maybe the pool of Governors is too big.
1. Conflict of Interest - this issue was raised some time ago, at the start of the debate, by the Richmond Hill team. My answer was that governors have in the past been part of the organizing teams of national tournament bids, and no one has ever challenged their right to bid as governors, when the bids came up for vote. I have not yet decided on this - I do not wnat to inhibit governors from becoming part of a bid organizing team. And if they directly assist a team, but then formally keep their name off the organizing team list, so they can vote, are we really any farther ahead? What do others think of this issue? For the CO bids, we had governors on teams and directly involved in teams, even if not named as such, and they all were entitled to bid, and some ( most ) did.
The only CFC Handbook section I can find on " Conflict of Interest " related only to " officers " of the corporation, in Section 2 of the Handbook on Letters Patent and Bylaws:
BY-LAW NUMBER TWO OF THE CHESS FEDERATION OF CANADA15. CONFLICT OF INTEREST
s. 15. Whenever a proposal is being considered which puts any CFC officer in a potential conflict of interest he shall declare the conflict and abstain from discussion, voting or other involvement in the matter.
So the question is did any of the Executive have to declare a conflict of interest, and abstain from voting on the Toronto CO bid, which was solely an executive decision, because there were no competing bids. And does this section have any relevance to governor voting on the CYCC competing bids?
2. Tie breaking vote on " Competing Bid " Votes -The vote was announced originally as Richmond Hill - 14; Toronto - 12. Then Lyle Craver found 2 more Toronto votes in his e-mail that he had " missed ", making it a tie vote. At this point I understand the Executive got a bit perplexed. What did they do now? Bob G, the president, and chair of the e-mail vote meeting, had decided not to abstain initially, and felt he could vote. So he had voted for the Richmond Hill bid. So did he now have a second tie-breaking vote, and if so, where in the CFC Handbook did it say this? And did it confirm that Bob G didn't have to abstain in the original vote? ( note - a third " missed " vote was also subsequently found which made it Richmond Hill - 15; Toronto - 14 ).
Here is what I find in the CFC Handbook:
Bylaw 3
DUTIES OF OFFICERS
PRESIDENT
4. The President shall be the chief executive Officer of the Federation. He shall preside at all meetings of the Assembly of Governors, or of the Board of Directors, when he is personally present.
Nothing there about how the President is to vote.
Rules and Regulations
ELECTION OF PRESIDENT
13. Immediately upon the convening of the Incoming Assembly, the Chairman shall call for the election of a President for the ensuing term, and in this matter the retiring President shall have a deliberate vote.
Question - if this section is seen as necessary to clarify that the President has a vote in the election of a new President at an AGM, is it a negaive way of saying that at all other times the President does not vote, but abstains? And if so, does there need to be somewhere an additional section to give him an extra tie-breaking vote? Or is this simply implied by the fact that he is directed to abstain initially?
Rules and Regulations
PRESIDENT A GOVERNOR AT LARGE
14. Immediately upon his election, the President shall cease to be a voting Governor for his Provincial Organization, and he shall have power to appoint an acting Governor in his stead, if necessary to ensure full representation for the Province he represented, and such appointment shall be for the balance of the Annual General Meeting then in session, and subject to the subsequent nomination of a Governor by his Provincial Organization, as otherwise provided for. In all matters to be decided by a vote of the Board, the President shall have a casting vote in the event the voting would otherwise be tied.
s. 15 makes clear that " Board " above means the Assembly of Governors :
CONSTITUTION OF ASSEMBLY
15. The President, together with appointed Governors, shall constitute the Board for the ensuing term, and shall hold office until their successors are appointed or elected.
Question - Does s. 14 above make clear whether the President is allowed to vote intially, or whether he must abstain? What is the implication of the president having a " casting vote in the event the voting would otherwise be tied."? Does casting vote mean he did have an initial vote as well? And if so, where does it say he must abstain?
So my bottom line on all this business of the President's vote, abstention and tie-breaking, is that the Handbook is deficient. Guess I may have to go back to the drafting board and look at bringing some Handbook amendment motion to clean this up.
Anyone got any advice on this? Did I miss anything in the Handbook that relates to this issue?
Bob
Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Thursday, 25th November, 2010, 10:13 AM.
In my opinion it is a positive sign that two groups presented strong bids for the CYCC. Each bid was distinctive and presented compelling reasons why their model for the 2011 CYCC was best. This is good for chess in Canada.
What is not good is that only 26 of the 60 CFC governors voted. Not even 50%. Voting turnouts in municipal, provincial and federal elections tend to be low but you get on the voters list by virtue of having Canadian citizenship and a pulse. Not too high a bar to get over. Consequently I can understand why we see voter apathy in Canadian elections. But I do not see why the turnout to vote on the CYCC bids was so low.
By being CFC governors, these individuals are saying implicitly that they are interested in seeing chess and the CFC prosper. However, their actions say quite the opposite. I would go so far to say that by not voting they are insulting the hard work that the bidders put into their proposals.
So why would someone want to be a CFC Governor and not want any input into one of the most important decisions of the year? Maybe the pool of Governors is too big.
Hi Steve,
You put it in a much cleaner, more polite way than I could have. I mentioned in the CFC Forum a couple of days ago how this low-voter turn-out looks pretty awful. It astonishes me how... governor positions get thrown around like nothing because not many people want to be a governor. I'd rather see 20 active governors and 40 vacancies, than a bunch of filled up positions by people who clearly don't care.
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