CYCC 2011 voting result

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: Expansion of CFC Conflict of Interest Rule?

Hi David:

When I decided to stand for CFC Governor, I saw a major problem - CFC communication with the membership. I set as one of my main tasks, bringing CFC issues to the attention of the CFC members, and being available to answer questions, and debate CFC positions. I feel I have gone some ways towards this goal of mine - I feel members know a lot more about CFC activities and policies than they used to.

I hope I have been doing this in a reasonable fashion.

Bob

( P.S. Don't know whether you were complimenting me or criticizing me ! )

[David McTavish]

Re: Expansion of CFC Conflict of Interest Rule?

U defend like a bulldog. Tharvardsson wishes you all the season's best. Long live you and the CFC. U are truly a great grassroots governor/

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: One Last Try

Hi Peter:

Glad we managed to continue this conversation - it is helpful to the CFC, even if sometimes the debate is not at the highest level.

Here is the problem as I see it. Richmond Hill and Toronto perceive there will be a close vote for the 2011 CYCC early on, when they are just thinking about bidding. They would like to enlist some CFC Governors/Officers to their organizing committee, to draw on their expertise in drawing up their bids, and to make their bids more credible.

Given your take on things, they would both be shooting themselves in the foot to enlist a govenor/officer, because they then lose that governor's vote in a close vote.

Seems to me this is a problem.

Bob

[Peter McKillop]

Re: One Last Try

... I'll wait to hear what other governors think about this possible limitation on governors becoming involved in bids - I concede your point is definitely arguable ( and perhaps right ).

But I have great difficulty with it on the ground, where bids are few and far between, and governors are supposed to be pro-active in promoting the good of the CFC, especially re bids. ...

Bob, no one, including me, has said that there should be a limitation on governors becoming actively involved in bids (I mean in key capacities not just volunteering for grunt work). What I'm saying is that conflicts of interest should be recognized and dealt with in a correct manner (a governor should withdraw from discussion and voting on a bid if s/he is also acting in a key role for one of the bidders). There are some 60 governors, right? It's not like the CFC will be incapacitated if a handful of them are involved in bids from time to time.

You mention that governors are supposed to be proactive in promoting the good of the CFC. Is it a good thing if there are people/organizers who may see the CFC's bidding processes as unfair or biased when it would be so simple to avoid such a perception with appropriate conflict of interest guidelines?

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: Expansion of CFC Conflict of Interest Rule?

Hi Gary:

As a practical matter re this conflict of interest discussion, I think it is important to note Bob G's announcement that the Executive, Toronto Bid and Richmond Hill Bid, all agreed to a final resolution of Richmond Hill getting the CYCC, and Toronto the CO. So as far as I can tell as a non-executive, this discussion it seems to me is not about going back to change anything re the awarding of 2011 Bids.

But it is a discussion about the future - what is " conflict of interest " re bidding, and generally, and should the CFC Handbook section be expanded to include governors.

Bob

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Expansion of CFC Conflict of Interest Rule?

Bob,

The officers are listed in section 2 of the bylaws. A few paragraph below the conflict of interest guidelines.

OFFICERS

The Officers of the Federation shall be

the members of the Board of Directors;

the Masters Representative;

the Women’s Co-ordinator;

the Junior Co-ordinator;

the Executive Director; and

any other general Officer who may be elected at the annual meeting of the Assembly or appointed as an Officer from the Assembly by the Board of Directors between the annual meeting at the Assembly. Upon the vacation from office of any officer between the annual meeting the President may fill the vacancy for the rest of the term by way of appointment.

From the CFC web site, here's your Officers and Board of directors.

http://www.chess.ca/contactus.shtml

It also lists the governors.

Which brings us back to the question of if the bidders were voting was there a conflict of interest as defined in the bylaws?

[Bob Armstrong]

Expansion of CFC Conflict of Interest Rule?

Hi Gary:

You are right that so far the Handbook section on conflict of interest only applies to officers - Bylaw 2 , section 15.

15. CONFLICT OF INTEREST

Whenever a proposal is being considered which puts any CFC officer in a potential conflict of interest he shall declare the conflict and abstain from discussion, voting or other involvement in the matter.

I would note, only as one example of the current conflict controversy, that Daxin ( Anna ) Jin is an officer, though a non-executive officer, Women's Coordinator. She was chair of the Richmond Hill organizing committee, and voted. Was this acceptable? This is one example of the problem, and there may be more. I personally have great difficulty seeing conflict of interest applicable to tournament bid situations, unless they involve pecuniary benefit to the officer in question. But Peter has shown that the definition accepted today may be broader. Is there a reason that this broader definition should not apply to bid situations?

Also, the discussion has expanded beyond officers to target any governor who had a conflict of interest ( though there is no Handbook section on this ).

I think the matter up for consideration is not only whether there were any conflicts under existing legislation, but also whether the word " officer " should be amended to read " governor ", to expand its scope.

So there are a number of questions to be answered:

1. does conflict of interest go beyond just pecuniary or equivalent benefit?
2. If so, should it apply to CFC Bid situations, to officers, under s. 15?
3. If so, were there undeclared conflicts of interest in the CYCC or CO voting?
4. Should the conflict of interest be expanded to apply to ordinary governors, as well as officers?

What are people's answers to these 4 questions ( and are there more outstanding questions? )?

Bob

[Gary Ruben]

Re: One Last Try

Hi Peter:

These definitions are certainly broader.

I'll wait to hear what other governors think about this possible limitation on governors becoming involved in bids - I concede your point is definitely arguable ( and perhaps right ).

But I have great difficulty with it on the ground, where bids are few and far between, and governors are supposed to be pro-active in promoting the good of the CFC, especially re bids.

Bob

Do you recognize a difference between a governor and an officer? The bylaw makes references to the officers.

[Roger Patterson]

Re: Vote or No Vote for the Chair?

Roger, please consider this hypothetical situation: if you and some friends worked hard to put together a worthy bid (i.e. worthy of fair consideration) to host the CYCC in Victoria, and if your bid was subsequently turned down by the CFC after being defeated by the narrowest of margins by a competing bid, and if you then found out that 2 or more of the people who used their votes to scuttle your bid were closely associated with the competing bid (for example, part of the competitor's organizing committee), would you not at the very least feel that you'd been treated unfairly?



wrote.

No, I wouldn't. And do you think that there is any group of active governors who would not have some history of association with any plausible group of bidders? Our community is not that big nor is there any impropriety in voting for your own bid or those who you know well.

[Stuart Brammall]

Re: One Last Try

1. Situation that has the potential to undermine the impartiality of a person because of the possibility of a clash between the person's self-interest and professional-interest or public-interest.

It seems to me a persons self-interest should always rest in not organizing a chess event, considering the risks to ones finances and reputation... ;)

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: One Last Try

Hi Peter:

These definitions are certainly broader.

I'll wait to hear what other governors think about this possible limitation on governors becoming involved in bids - I concede your point is definitely arguable ( and perhaps right ).

But I have great difficulty with it on the ground, where bids are few and far between, and governors are supposed to be pro-active in promoting the good of the CFC, especially re bids.

Bob

[Peter McKillop]

One Last Try

Sorry - guess it's time to stop discussing it.

From businessdictionary.com:

conflict of interest

Definitions (2)

1. Situation that has the potential to undermine the impartiality of a person because of the possibility of a clash between the person's self-interest and professional-interest or public-interest.

2. Situation where a party's responsibility to a second-party limits its ability to discharge its responsibility to a third-party.


Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/de...#ixzz16WVy7n00


Can you understand now, Bob, how a conflict of interest can exist without there necessarily being any money involved? If you're still in the dark then I give up.

[Peter McKillop]

Re: When Might a Governor Be in Conflict?

Sorry - guess it's time to stop discussing it.

Yes indeed.

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: When Might a Governor Be in Conflict?

Sorry - guess it's time to stop discussing it.

[Peter McKillop]

Re: When Might a Governor Be in Conflict?

... I feel that you are trying to impose a " judicial " standard of conflict of interest, on a " legislative " decider ( CFC governors ). It may be that these are different, I don't know. ...

This would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.