Simultaneous record controversy

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Simultaneous record controversy

    A dispute has arisen over several claims for the Guinness record for simultaneous play.

    On Aug. 13, Iranian GM gave a 500-board simul in Tehran. It seems to be well documented at http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5726 with several videos. It took 18h 12m, and the result was +397 =90 -13 for an 88% result (Guinness needs an 80%+ result).

    On Oct. 21, Israeli GM Alik Gershon gave a 523-board simul in Tel Aviv, with an 86% result. There are very few details on this exhibition. http://community.guinnessworldrecord...1360/7691.html

    In neither of the above is any indication given on the ratings of the players.

    But according to http://main.uschess.org/content/view/10951/319/ and http://chessworldrecord.com/, on April 8, in Flemington, NJ, US IM Dean Ippolito is intending to set a new "professional" Guinness record on 100 boards (they retired the old record). This sets a minimum rating of 1200 (and he is accepting no one over 1800). He says it will take him 15-20 hours (to play 100 boards - while the others (above) took 17-18 hours to play 500?).

    Is something wrong/fishy here?

  • #2
    Re: Simultaneous record controversy

    500 boards in 18 hours works out to 2 minutes 10 seconds a game, assuming no breaks at all. Allowing a 5 minute break per hour brings the average down to 2 minutes a game. Assuming the average game was 30 moves, that's 4 seconds a move.

    That's movin'

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Simultaneous record controversy

      One wonders what the "new" record is supposed to measure - number of opponents, strength of opposition, result percentage, time taken ... In my mind the benchmark is still Capablanca's 1922 Cleveland display (+102 =1 -0 in 7 hours, and that after not playing any chess for nine months).

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Simultaneous record controversy

        Hi Hugh,

        On a side note, I recall Vlad Dobrich conducting a simultaneous exhibition in Burlington, Ontario in 1973 over 2-3 days that involved hundreds of players, and certainly no restrictions on opponent strength. They had a running scoreboard, and it was a large % in Vlad's favor. The motivation for the simul was to promote Chess Canada, as anyone who beat Vlad received a complimentary year's subscription. Yes, I did get a complimentary subscription...but not many did!

        Also Paul Simon from Brantford attempted to break some simul record some years back, but I dont recall the relative success...

        My favorite simul loss was to Paul Keres in 1975...

        :)

        Brian

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Simultaneous record controversy

          I think the problem with the previous 500+ board records is that there is no way of knowing how strong the players were. If a GM were to take on random shopping mall patrons, then I can easily believe that they could finish off 500 of them at 2 mins per game. But against say 1500s it would seem a tall order.

          If the new "professional" record means that the players have to be 1200+, then I think it will be tough to ever get to 500+. However, Ippolito's 100 boards with ratings 1200-1800 seems to me to be easily beatable. I guess we will have people in the larger cities breaking the record repeatedly over the next few years.
          "Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Simultaneous record controversy

            As for quality of simul, I organised a double simul circa 1970 by then World Champion Boris Spassky (40 boards) and Paul Keres (40 boards) in the Great Hall of Hart House. What a spectacle! Needless to say, all 80 boards were taken and the hall was filled with some 400 - 500 spectators. Anyone who was there would surely remember the occasion - and may well have some photos of the event. I don't recall if there were winners - some draws,yes. But anyone who was there must now consider themself a winner!:)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Simultaneous record controversy

              Possibly the strongest simul (exhibitor-wise) ever given in Canada:

              In Montreal - just prior to (or maybe during) the 1974 Canadian Open, there was a 100-board simul held outdoors on the plaza of Place Ville-Marie - four GM's (Ljubojevic, Suttles, Larsen, Hort, and Quinteros were the five GM's playing in the Open - I don't remember which four gave a simul) - each gave 25-board simuls. There was a large crowd of spectators. I'll try to find a newspaper article online about it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Simultaneous record controversy

                Maybe 1967?

                "A double simultaneous was held at Hart House Chess Club in Toronto. Spassky played 40 boards, winning 29, losing two [Bruce Amos and Julius Montasevich] and drawing nine. Keres faced 30 opponents, allowing only two losses and two draws."

                Canadian Chess Chat, November 1967. Newspapers put the exact date as 21st October.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Simultaneous record controversy

                  Originally posted by Brian Hartman View Post
                  Also Paul Simon from Brantford attempted to break some simul record some years back, but I dont recall the relative success...
                  I played in a simul against him, he was attempting to break his previous record of 219 (I'm not sure what kind of record it was supposed to be). He played 221 schoolkids from kindergarten right up to OAC, and finished with 220 wins and one draw.

                  Lee Hendon may have also played in that simul, we were both in the 1500s at the time and the highest rated participants. There would have been maybe 10-20 players over 1200 strength at best (my school brought about 15 800+ players). The whole thing took 6 or 7 hours I believe.
                  Christopher Mallon
                  FIDE Arbiter

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Simultaneous record controversy

                    Originally posted by John Coleman View Post
                    500 boards in 18 hours works out to 2 minutes 10 seconds a game, assuming no breaks at all. Allowing a 5 minute break per hour brings the average down to 2 minutes a game. Assuming the average game was 30 moves, that's 4 seconds a move.

                    That's movin'
                    That's what I call attention to detail. I didn't catch that and considering the number of boards should have done. Now I have to ask the likelihood of the accuracy of the report.

                    Speaking of attention to detail, here's one for you which is not chess related. If you've seen the movie "True Grit" you'll have noticed John Wayne wears the patch over his left eye. I saw the trailer for the remake and Jeff Bridges is wearing the patch over his right eye. Why the difference. I guess it has to do with the dominant eye. One eye is dominant. Often a person with a dominant left eye is left handed but not always. I don't know if Bridges is left handed. I suppose it could have to do with eyesight as well but kind of doubt that as people wear contact lenses these days.

                    A dominant eye is important in things like shooting and riding and the movie is a western.

                    To check your dominant eye hold your arm straight out. With both eyes open make a circle with your fingers while looking at an object across the room through the fingers.

                    Close one eye. If you are still focused on the item, the open eye is your dominant eye. Then close the other eye and the object should have moved because it's your non dominant eye.

                    Interesting but nothing to do with chess. Only attention to detail, which is related to chess.
                    Gary Ruben
                    CC - IA and SIM

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Simultaneous record controversy

                      From the FIDE web site (Full details at: http://www.fide.com/component/conten...ghami-iri.html :

                      World Record 604 Board Simultaneous Chess Exhibition by GM Ehsan Ghaem Maghami (IRI)

                      GM Ehsan Ghaem Maghami, 9-time Iran national champion, set a new world record of 604 boards for Simultaneous Chess Exhibition by an individual. The simultaneous exhibition took 25 hours from 8th to 9th February 2011 at the sports stadium of the Shahid Beheshti University in Tehran.

                      He broke the 2009 record of 500 opponents set by Iranian GM Morteza Mahjoob who scored 88.4%. Last year, Israeli GM Alik Gershon reportedly took on 523 opponents with an 86% result.

                      The opening ceremony at 10am was attended by Iran Sports Minister Dr. Saeed Lou, Iranian Chess Federation President Mohammed Jaffar Kambuzia, Asian Chess Federation Deputy President Casto Abundo, who was the official FIDE Observer, and some well known Iranian sportsmen. The main sponsor was Ansar Bank. There was a festival atmosphere and all players received T-shirts of the event, a book on the Ehsan Ghaem Maghami-Karpov match, official ID card, the chess set and board on which they played, food and drink.

                      Some 1,500 registered on the official website http://www.nabard604.com/ and the first to come had the honor of being part of history. Of the field of 604 participants, over half were adults. One fourth were women who were seated separately, and most children were seated together. All players recorded their moves on scoresheets.

                      With all players at their boards, GM Ghaem Maghami began play at 10:20 am on 8th February. At around 2 pm there was a lunch break for all with players remaining at their boards. The record was assured at 6 am the next morning of 9th February as GM Ghaem Maghami achieved the 80% minimum score after beating 484 opponents.

                      The last games ended 11:25 AM on 9th February. After 25 hours, the final results were 580 wins, 16 draws and 8 losses for a total score of 588 out of 604 or 97.35 percent. Ten more boards were added which he won but which were not counted for the record.

                      Chief Organizer of the event was IA/IO Mehrdad Pahlevanzadeh. Chief Arbiter was Hamid Reza Pour Shahmari assisted by Deputy Arbiter IA Najib, six Senior Arbiters and 48 national arbiters.

                      Players ranged from 5 to 85 in age, many coming from outside Tehran. The event enjoyed massive media coverage all TV stations with more than three hours live coverage.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Simultaneous record controversy

                        I wonder why anyone is still bothering to chase any "Guinness" chess records? A glance through most of the last ten editions of their record book will reveal the pathetically low regard they have for our game.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Simultaneous record controversy

                          Originally posted by Christopher Mallon View Post
                          I played in a simul against him, he was attempting to break his previous record of 219 (I'm not sure what kind of record it was supposed to be). He played 221 schoolkids from kindergarten right up to OAC, and finished with 220 wins and one draw.

                          Lee Hendon may have also played in that simul, we were both in the 1500s at the time and the highest rated participants. There would have been maybe 10-20 players over 1200 strength at best (my school brought about 15 800+ players). The whole thing took 6 or 7 hours I believe.
                          Hello Chris if it was the one at the Branlyn Community Centre then yes i did also I think that Mark Kruis would have been there, thou I can't remember if he had hit his 1700 rating retirement yet:)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Simultaneous record controversy

                            Chris & Lee:

                            Paul Simon set his 1st simul, where the Brantford Casino is now. He tried to beat his record at the event at the Branlyn School. I was asked by Herman Kruis to help with the set up and directing of the tournament and got a chance to play in the simul as well. I got a draw in my game. I believe Lee had a chance to draw as well. There were a few others who helped set up who had a chance to play as well. I don't recall if Tony, Frank or Randy was there as well.

                            John Erickson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Simultaneous record controversy

                              Well, if you got a draw, it must have been the simul in which he played 219 people and had about 12 draws, because I was the only person to not lose in the one with 221 opponents.
                              Christopher Mallon
                              FIDE Arbiter

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X