number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

Hi Evan, thanks for your 2c worth! I completely agree with you, and I have been inspired by that tournament. The hitch though in Ottawa has been, especially between about 1600 and 1800, and then 2000 and 2200, that we do not get enough numbers to ensure many different opponents, especially across 5 events a year. I believe that one reason that 3-Rivieres gets so many more participants is a much broader and deeper prize fund, that has been built on a foundation of sponsorship across many years. They sure seem to have their whole act together. For my events, I feel that I am a good TD, a decent Organizer, and a useless sponsorship-guy, lol! In another post in this thread, Kevin was mentioning sponsorship, and doing it at the EOCA level, etc. For years now, and this offer still stands, I would welcome anyone, or any team of people, with wide open arms, who would like to team up with me to get us sponsorship. Someone make me an offer! :)

I don't know, but it is also possible that many more players (FQE and/or CFC members) live much closer to 3-Rivieres than to Ottawa. With the cost of living higher than in the 1990s, and more kinds of internet etc. activities available, less people may want to travel to Ottawa for a weekend event than back then (aside from there being less CFC members).

I was also mentioning having the EOCA (or an organized chess club, league or association within any region in the country, for that matter) recruit new CFC members from the general public, say by advertising. These could be sent directly to an Ottawa weekend event, or introduced to CFC-oriented clubs like the RA (in the case of kids, the CMA seems to have staked that out, if not local teachers like Tom, who may refer students to the RA). The goal being to eventually have 100+ player Ottawa weekend events, faster than could be hoped for now. In the past I have mentioned free/cheap ways to do this that I had thought of by myself. In Ottawa, Rogers TV community channel 22 has certain times devoted to the (free) posting of community events. Then, in the West End, there is the weekly free EMC newspaper, which allows for the free advertising of community events, I believe.

As well, CFRA radio host Michael Harris is a known chess lover, and if it's allowed by station policy then he might mention an event or website if someone phoned or emailed him. Plus, every year for some time now there is Westfest, where volunteer players (organized by Tim Bouma) give simuls (around summertime). There the general public can be told about the RA, or even the CFC (the public is always surprised to learn about the existence of serious competitive chess in Canada, I hear).

Simuls need not be restricted to Westfest: any number of Ottawa malls have allowed them at one time or another in the past. Where I live (beside Lincoln Fields mall) there are at least 4 master strength players living close by (including myself), plus an RA Bridge Tournament Director who was an Expert strength chess player ages ago, before moving on to Bridge - a couple of years ago he investigated finding a cheap site for a chess+Bridge club near us, but stopped looking when there was another club established in Westboro (alas, that eventually went under); anyway, it seems a pity there has been no simul arranged in memory at Lincoln Fields, as far as I know.

As for sponsorship, I have no experience with that (I learned of recruiting ideas for city based chess, as used by Brampton's then non-CFC oriented club while serving on their Executive back in the 1980s). However former EOCA President NJF did manage to get some (modest!?) sponsorship for the EOCA in the past. Just guessing, but without knowing anyone with experience, or having literary reference material, learning to obtain sponsorship (within a particular locality such as Ottawa) by trial and error may be necessary, and for big success much might depend on personal connections or salesmanship. The 2007 Canadian Open was held in Ottawa, and perhaps the team that organized it (minus NJF, ultimately) did obtain substantial sponsorship, and their brains could be picked for ideas - some may still be serving with EOCA governance, perhaps.

[Aris Marghetis]

Re: number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

I don't know, but it is also possible that many more players (FQE and/or CFC members) live much closer to 3-Rivieres than to Ottawa. With the cost of living higher than in the 1990s, and more kinds of internet etc. activities available, less people may want to travel to Ottawa for a weekend event than back then (aside from there being less CFC members).

I was also mentioning having the EOCA (or an organized chess club, league or association within any region in the country, for that matter) recruit new CFC members from the general public, say by advertising. These could be sent directly to an Ottawa weekend event, or introduced to CFC-oriented clubs like the RA (in the case of kids, the CMA seems to have staked that out, if not local teachers like Tom, who may refer students to the RA). The goal being to eventually have 100+ player Ottawa weekend events, faster than could be hoped for now. In the past I have mentioned free/cheap ways to do this that I had thought of by myself. In Ottawa, Rogers TV community channel 22 has certain times devoted to the (free) posting of community events. Then, in the West End, there is the weekly free EMC newspaper, which allows for the free advertising of community events, I believe.

As well, CFRA radio host Michael Harris is a known chess lover, and if it's allowed by station policy then he might mention an event or website if someone phoned or emailed him. Plus, every year for some time now there is Westfest, where volunteer players (organized by Tim Bouma) give simuls (around summertime). There the general public can be told about the RA, or even the CFC (the public is always surprised to learn about the existence of serious competitive chess in Canada, I hear).

Simuls need not be restricted to Westfest: any number of Ottawa malls have allowed them at one time or another in the past. Where I live (beside Lincoln Fields mall) there are at least 4 master strength players living close by (including myself), plus an RA Bridge Tournament Director who was an Expert strength chess player ages ago, before moving on to Bridge - a couple of years ago he investigated finding a cheap site for a chess+Bridge club near us, but stopped looking when there was another club established in Westboro (alas, that eventually went under); anyway, it seems a pity there has been no simul arranged in memory at Lincoln Fields, as far as I know.

As for sponsorship, I have no experience with that (I learned of recruiting ideas for city based chess, as used by Brampton's then non-CFC oriented club while serving on their Executive back in the 1980s). However former EOCA President NJF did manage to get some (modest!?) sponsorship for the EOCA in the past. Just guessing, but without knowing anyone with experience, or having literary reference material, learning to obtain sponsorship (within a particular locality such as Ottawa) by trial and error may be necessary, and for big success much might depend on personal connections or salesmanship. The 2007 Canadian Open was held in Ottawa, and perhaps the team that organized it (minus NJF, ultimately) did obtain substantial sponsorship, and their brains could be picked for ideas - some may still be serving with EOCA governance, perhaps.

Hey Kevin, thanks for your reply:

1) Would you be interested in becoming my PR guy, getting events announced, etc? If yes, then I would strongly consider adding another section, an unrated one for newbies.

2) In case NJF didn't mention it to you, I have asked him a couple of times over the years to be the sponsorship guru for my events, but he declined (Tom is my witness ;)

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

Hey Kevin, thanks for your reply:

1) Would you be interested in becoming my PR guy, getting events announced, etc? If yes, then I would strongly consider adding another section, an unrated one for newbies.

First I'd like to talk to you in person to know everything you'd expect before deciding, but even if I just need to stick to doing what I mentioned in the way of advertising (Rogers TV channel 22, freely distributed newspapers' free ads, CFRA Radio plugs [if allowed]), I'm wondering how I'll be able to prove to the person that I'm contacting that I represent you, in case they ask for proof. [edit: It could be easier if they'd accept your phone number from me, but I seem to recall you're reluctant to give your phone number out (to players, at least)]

The idea of adding a section for newbies is good (assuming you don't run out of tables or rooms), but you may need to be gentle when it comes to enforcing the rules (e.g. some may be uncertain about how to castle, etc.); perhaps the newbies should play for trophies or some other non-cash prizes in their section, unless they individually agree to be thrown to the wolves by playing as unrated players in the lowest cash prize section, rather than play in the newbie section (possibly for a lower entry fee).

[Evan Frangakis]

Re: number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

Hi Aris and Kevin,

Sponsorships are definitely a big boost to any event, but from my recollection there is no meaningful sponsor support to the 3 Rivers event. It is essentially self-funded via registration fees. This year's event is advertised as having a $12,000 prize fund based on 255 entries (similar to prior years). With an average registration fee of $65, the math is clear to see. For those interested, I am pasting a copy of the ad (English) below.

What I have always found hard to explain is why 3 Rivers which is a much smaller city than Ottawa and the same distance from Montreal, can attract such a high turnout. Based on my very unscientific analysis, it seems that about half the players are from the Montreal region, with the other half coming from 3 Rivers, Quebec city, Sherbrooke and even some from out of province (ie. Ontario). Seems to me that Ottawa should be able to draw as many players as 3 Rivers. Maybe the problem is that the Ottawa events are not well publicized in Montreal? Just some food for thought.




COM : english version


Prizes : 12 000 $ (based on 255 paid entries)
6th tournament of the Tour du Québec Oasis

Online registration with Paypal

Printable registration form (french)

When : March 18-19-20, 2011
5 rounds swiss


Time control: 75 min/30 moves + 40 min/ mate with 30 seconds increment from the beginning

Where : Hôtel L’Urbania ( Hôtel Du Roy) 3600, boul. Kruger, Trois-Rivières 1-800-463-4620, G9A 4M3

Prize fund :
Open : 1 000 $, 500, 250, 125, (200$ : -2300), (200 $ and 100 $ : -2200), (200 $ and 100 $ : -2100)
A (-2000) : 1 000, 500, 250, 125 (100 $ : -1900)
B (-1800) : 1 000, 500, 250, 125 (100 $ : -1700)
C (-1600) : 1 000, 500, 250, 125 (100 $ : -1500)
D (-1400) : 1 000, 500, 250, 125 (100 $ : -1300)
E (-1200 and unr.) : 700, 350, 150, 100 (75 $ : -1100) and (50 $ : -1000) + (110 $ + 2 FQE membership cards to the 3 best unrated players)
- 6 draws of 50 $ (one per section)
-Every player that scored 4 points without winning any prize will get 50$

Round times :
Friday : Late registration from 16 :00 to 19:00 / round 1 at 19:30
Saturday : rounds 2 and 3 at 10 :00 and 16 :00
Sunday : rounds 4 and 5 at 10 :00 and 16 :00

Registration fees :
Before February 20 : 65 $ ; Junior or section E - 55$
From February 20 : add 5$
On site registrations : add 15$
Free for FQE masters (prized reduced by 50 $ on a 200 $ win, 25 $ on a 100 $ win)

You can mail your registration before March 11 by cheque or money order :
Fédération québécoise des échecs C.P. 1000, succursale M, Montréal QC H1V 3R2

Rules:
- For players coming from outside of Quebec, the highest rating is considered.
- Unrated players are only elligible to prizes in the open section and to the unrated prizes in the last section.
- Maximum of 2 byes in the 3 first rounds.

Lodging :
Hôtel L’Urbania : 1-800-463-4620 : book early
72$/night; two beds 78$/night (breakfast included : a value of 9,75 $). Additional person : 10 $.
Breakfast : Free buffet offered to the tournament participants : includes eggs, cereals, fruits, milk, toasts, juice, cafe…

For further information :
www.fqechecs.qc.ca
info@fqechecs.qc.ca
514-252-3034
Fédération québécoise des échecs
10-01-2011

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

First I'd like to talk to you [Aris] in person to know everything you'd expect before deciding, but even if I just need to stick to doing what I mentioned in the way of advertising (Rogers TV channel 22, freely distributed newspapers' free ads, CFRA Radio plugs [if allowed]), I'm wondering how I'll be able to prove to the person that I'm contacting that I represent you, in case they ask for proof. [edit: It could be easier if they'd accept your phone number from me, but I seem to recall you're reluctant to give your phone number out (to players, at least)]

Hi Aris

In case you don't wish to field any possible calls from a contact person for an advertiser trying to verify that an event to be advertised is in fact going to take place, perhaps they could be told (by me) to call the RA Centre to confirm that a chess tournament is taking place there on the dates that I give to that contact person. However that means that I would contact advertisers only after a firm date for the tournament had been set by the RA and yourself, and that also means checking that RA staff have a log of upcoming events at their fingertips when answering phone inquiries.

At the least, of course I would include your name and email address in the advertisement, and an advertiser may be content to email you or the RA for verification.

[Jean Hébert]

Re: number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

What I have always found hard to explain is why 3 Rivers which is a much smaller city than Ottawa and the same distance from Montreal, can attract such a high turnout. Based on my very unscientific analysis, it seems that about half the players are from the Montreal region, with the other half coming from 3 Rivers, Quebec city, Sherbrooke and even some from out of province (ie. Ontario). Seems to me that Ottawa should be able to draw as many players as 3 Rivers. Maybe the problem is that the Ottawa events are not well publicized in Montreal?

One explanation (there are more) is the lack of nearby and very affordable lodging very near or at the tournament site, like in Trois-Rivieres. This is a major roadblock for out-of-town players.

[Bob Gillanders]

Re: number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

[I'm not sure, but my hunch is that accelerated pairings don't make mismatches go away, they just push them backwards toward the money rounds.]

John - your hunch is right on the mark. Garvin and I did a few simulations last year when we were considering accelerated pairings in Hamilton. It didn't seem to matter how many rounds (1,2 or 3) with accelerated pairings, the next round had gross mismatches, often just as bad as if you hadn't bothered. :(

[Aris Marghetis]

Re: number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

Kevin, I don't understand where you're going with the lack of phone call thing, but I will be at the RA Centre tonight from 7pm to 730pm, so why don't we just discuss this then?

[Aris Marghetis]

Re: number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

John - your hunch is right on the mark. Garvin and I did a few simulations last year when we were considering accelerated pairings in Hamilton. It didn't seem to matter how many rounds (1,2 or 3) with accelerated pairings, the next round had gross mismatches, often just as bad as if you hadn't bothered. :(

Hey Bob, would you indicate how much acceleration you used in those simulations? For example, when I first experienced accelerations, it was a full point added to the top half of the table, for the first 2 rounds. Were you using that approach, or perhaps something declining, like I was going to try? This seemed to work in a small Active that I ran a few years ago, but I am very interested in any acceleration simulation findings. Feel free to either post here, or just email me. Thanks in advance for any insights you can provide.

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

Kevin, I don't understand where you're going with the lack of phone call thing, but I will be at the RA Centre tonight from 7pm to 730pm, so why don't we just discuss this then?

Hi Aris

Sorry we didn't have time to discuss last night, as I had to play my game after arriving right at 7:30. Plus I hadn't seen your post that I am quoting.

Regarding my discussion of phone calls, I hope I can clarify right here:

1. One time I called you (regarding an Ottawa event that you organized, when I wished to withdraw my entry), you asked where I had got your phone number, so I assumed you might be reluctant to receive phone calls (from players at least). Plus your having to field any/lots of phone calls from advertisers might be seen as defeating the purpose of having a PR man for your events, rather than you doing the phoning yourself. Btw, later I remembered that I had obtained your phone number from the RA club's Schedule many years ago, when you were a club TD (though I am now still not sure whether you any longer like receiving potentially lots of phone calls).

2. I am concerned that if I phone an advertiser (not having a car, that or emailing would be my preferred option), they might wish to verify that I am not pulling a prank or giving incorrect information to be advertised. So, they may wish to call the RA and/or yourself in order to verify (though I suppose they could call me back at the phone number I give for myself, but I am not sure that would satisfy them). Now, advertisers may always be more trusting than that, I don't know (not having been a PR man before, not even for my old Brampton club - I only heard about the PR tricks they used, I didn't make the arrangements). Perhaps my concern is silly, I am not sure. Anyway, I figured it's better to try to clarify how I am going to operate, and if it's possible to figure it out in advance. As you said, we can discuss in person later.

[Aris Marghetis]

Re: number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

Hi Aris

Sorry we didn't have time to discuss last night, as I had to play my game after arriving right at 7:30. Plus I hadn't seen your post that I am quoting.

Regarding my discussion of phone calls, I hope I can clarify right here:

1. One time I called you (regarding an Ottawa event that you organized, when I wished to withdraw my entry), you asked where I had got your phone number, so I assumed you might be reluctant to receive phone calls (from players at least). Plus your having to field any/lots of phone calls from advertisers might be seen as defeating the purpose of having a PR man for your events, rather than you doing the phoning yourself. Btw, later I remembered that I had obtained your phone number from the RA club's Schedule many years ago, when you were a club TD (though I am now still not sure whether you any longer like receiving potentially lots of phone calls).

2. I am concerned that if I phone an advertiser (not having a car, that or emailing would be my preferred option), they might wish to verify that I am not pulling a prank or giving incorrect information to be advertised. So, they may wish to call the RA and/or yourself in order to verify (though I suppose they could call me back at the phone number I give for myself, but I am not sure that would satisfy them). Now, advertisers may always be more trusting than that, I don't know (not having been a PR man before, not even for my old Brampton club - I only heard about the PR tricks they used, I didn't make the arrangements). Perhaps my concern is silly, I am not sure. Anyway, I figured it's better to try to clarify how I am going to operate, and if it's possible to figure it out in advance. As you said, we can discuss in person later.

Dear Kevin, I expect to be at the RA again next week, between about 7pm and 730pm, taking registrations, and always ready-willing-able to chat with a potential volunteer! :)

P.S. I now finally realize what you mean by the phone numbers: I freely give my cell phone number out, but the family is not crazy about too many phone calls at home! ;)

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

Dear Kevin, I expect to be at the RA again next week, between about 7pm and 730pm, taking registrations, and always ready-willing-able to chat with a potential volunteer! :)

P.S. I now finally realize what you mean by the phone numbers: I freely give my cell phone number out, but the family is not crazy about too many phone calls at home! ;)

Okay, Aris.

Remember that the Shirov Simul is at the RA next week (on Thursday), so I am not sure where most of the club members and/or simul participants might gather between 7 & 7:30pm.

P.S. I noticed in the Shirov Simul thread below that the simul begins at 7:30. That eases my mind a bit, as I had somehow thought it would start half an hour earlier. Thus I have more time to arrive, though I still may not have much to spare if I eat my supper at the RA as I am thinking of doing.

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

In Ottawa, Rogers TV community channel 22 has certain times devoted to the (free) posting of community events. Then, in the West End, there is the weekly free EMC newspaper, which allows for the free advertising of community events, I believe.

As well, CFRA radio host Michael Harris is a known chess lover, and if it's allowed by station policy then he might mention an event or website if someone phoned or emailed him. Plus, every year for some time now there is Westfest, where volunteer players (organized by Tim Bouma) give simuls (around summertime). There the general public can be told about the RA, or even the CFC (the public is always surprised to learn about the existence of serious competitive chess in Canada, I hear).

Simuls need not be restricted to Westfest: any number of Ottawa malls have allowed them at one time or another in the past. Where I live (beside Lincoln Fields mall) there are at least 4 master strength players living close by (including myself), plus an RA Bridge Tournament Director who was an Expert strength chess player ages ago, before moving on to Bridge - a couple of years ago he investigated finding a cheap site for a chess+Bridge club near us, but stopped looking when there was another club established in Westboro (alas, that eventually went under); anyway, it seems a pity there has been no simul arranged in memory at Lincoln Fields, as far as I know.

Today I was at Lincoln Fields mall, and I discovered that there may be hope for chess yet: two twentysomething girls were playing each other at a table near the Pam's coffee & treats booth that I frequent. I caught one of the girls' eye and she just smiled; later I watched their game standing nearby for a few seconds, hoping to let them know organized chess existed, but they kept talking so I didn't linger long. At least at the RA club at the moment we have one junior and adult female player, not counting a teenager who hasn't come for a while (like her brother and father).

Meanwhile, here's an email I sent to several EOCA Board members that has some interesting links, if anyone's into advertising in the Ottawa area:

"Hi everyone

I thought I’d share some links I found for free advertising for community events, for which organized chess ought to be eligible. The first link includes how to apply for an ad on Rogers TV Cable 22’s “Worth Noting” free community bulletin board; I think such free ads show up on TV on Channel 22 (“Worth Noting” is scheduled nowadays for only early in the morning, as far as I can tell), though you need to be a Rogers customer to apply for an ad, and the ads [also] appear online at the given website:

http://www.rogerstv.com/page.aspx?li...&dat=1/30/2011

The second, more important, link includes how to apply for newspaper advertising for various community newspapers (e.g. West End’s EMC, which has some free ad space), as well as the advertising on the website itself (which tens of thousands of people view, apparently); the EOCA (for example) should be eligible for free advertising, since it’s non-profit:

http://ottawastart.com/newspapers.php

Yours truly, Kevin Pacey

[Spencer Martin]

Re: number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

Hi Aris

I realize this thread is a bit dated, but I am new to ChessTalk and I'd like to put my 2 cents in. I didn't read every message in the thread, so apologies if this point has already been addressed.

Has any consideration been given to allowing players to "play-up" one section, maybe for a $10 fee? It could be limited to those within 100 points of the section above; thereby ensuring a maximum rating difference of 300? I returned to tournament chess in 2009 after a 9 year absence, and in the few tournaments I have been able to play in, I have played some opponents multiple times. It would be nice to get more variety, and also, you learn a lot when you play higher rated players. Thanks

[Aris Marghetis]

Re: number of sections at the Ottawa Spring Open

Hi Aris

I realize this thread is a bit dated, but I am new to ChessTalk and I'd like to put my 2 cents in. I didn't read every message in the thread, so apologies if this point has already been addressed.

Has any consideration been given to allowing players to "play-up" one section, maybe for a $10 fee? It could be limited to those within 100 points of the section above; thereby ensuring a maximum rating difference of 300? I returned to tournament chess in 2009 after a 9 year absence, and in the few tournaments I have been able to play in, I have played some opponents multiple times. It would be nice to get more variety, and also, you learn a lot when you play higher rated players. Thanks

Hi Spencer, your question comes up every once in a while in person, so let me try to capture my thoughts here for more people to consider. I am not married to my current format, so I would not mind feedback. However, I must admit strong preference for not allowing players to play up. My reasoning can be broken down across 2 main points :

1) When I started as an Organizer/TD, I instinctively tried formats that would attract me as a player. However, as I am no longer rated even 2000, I also bounce many of my ideas off of IM Tom, who is always gracious with his time, and always demonstrates integrity within his feedback (as opposed to pushing personal agenda items). Finally, especially after rounds have started, I make it a habit to chat with parents of newer (and younger) players, to confirm just what is bringing them to more competitive chess.

My conclusions might seem simplistic, but in my humble opinion, even though players might not ask for either of these points, they really influence whether they come back :
- all rounds starting on time
- all games being close battles

There was a stretch of tournaments a while ago where I did indeed offer players the option of "playing up". I found it extremely rare that such players contributed to games being close battles. When we step back and think about it, that makes total sense. It is also a testament to the rating system being accurate enough for weekender purposes.

2) During the stretch of tournaments where I did offer "playing up", the feedback was quite predictable. Lower-rated players tended to like it, while higher-rated players tended to not like it. Again, this makes total sense, as the benefit to the lower-rated player vastly out-weighs the "benefit" of increasing the prize fund by $10 (for example).

I do not know how this plays out in other markets, but in Ottawa, it seemed to me that we were risking the insidious effect of eroding the overall strength of our events by displeasing higher-rated players. Therefore, I then attempted strict sectioning without any "playing up". I admit I have not done a detailed analysis, but it seems to me that there has been a definite strengthening effect due to this approach. For example, even though I provide many sections (to facilitate all games being close battles), I have kind of had to let the U1400 subsection go, as more and more of our players are higher-rated (for example, this weekend, we had 50% more players over 1800 in the sections also rated FIDE, as compared to the players in the sections rated only CFC, under 1800).

In conclusion, I believe that setting and working a good format is the way to develop into bigger tournaments, and as that happens, we all get more variety in opponents. On the other hand, I have rarely felt any enduring positive effect to having "playing up", even though I admit that I am looking at it from the more "macro" Organizer viewpoint.

Try as I might, I personally find it challenging to please 1 person by letting them play up a section, when the odds are high that relatively speaking, this will displease 5 players from the higher-rated section. Finally, it seems to me that growing higher-rated sections inspires more overall participation. Lower-rated players repeatedly tell me that they love watching higher-rated players. However, let's face it, the vice-versa never happens.

OK, falling asleep at the keyboard now, probably won't see replies until tomorrow! :)