Inside Job

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  • #46
    Re: Inside Job

    Housing bubble close to bursting: report -CBC News
    Posted: Jun 29, 2011 11:22 AM ET

    The high cost of Canadian housing has put the economy in jeopardy, a Capital Economics report suggests.

    “Housing valuations have lost all touch with fundamentals and household debt is at a record high,” economists at the economic research consultancy say in their most recent Canada Economic Outlook.

    “Our fear is that, with the housing bubble now close to bursting and commodity prices retreating, Canada will go from leader to laggard.”

    The report predicts a fall in house prices by as much as 25 per cent over the next three years.

    A domestic housing boom coupled with high commodity prices worldwide have spared the economy the severe recession felt by other developed countries.

    Canada’s economic success could become the thorn in its side as the threat of a downturn in the housing sector looms, the report says.

    The firm says a burst housing bubble would shrink real estate investment and hurt consumption — two things that would considerably slow economic growth.

    This decline in consumption will mean a slowly rising unemployment rate as well, according to Capital.

    The company says Canadian house prices are overvalued by approximately 25 per cent, close to excessive levels seen in the frothy U.S. market at its 2006 peak.

    Over-building is already visible; the number of unoccupied houses and condos is at a record high. It closely resembles the 1994-95 housing slump, when the construction industry experienced a severe downturn.

    The report forecasts falling house prices and smaller residential investment. Real estate currently makes up 6.8 per cent of Canada’s GDP. Lower prices would mean a hit to household net worth as property now accounts for one third of a family’s total assets, the report found.

    The firm expects the Bank of Canada to stay the course in the near term, as financial worries at home and abroad will keep interest rates at their current level for a while.

    Bob

    ( Ouch! I'm a homeowner who's valuations have just continued to rise over the last few years! )

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Inside Job

      Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post

      ( Ouch! I'm a homeowner who's valuations have just continued to rise over the last few years! )
      If you like the home and you aren't planning on moving in the near future, what difference does the valuation make?
      Gary Ruben
      CC - IA and SIM

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Inside Job

        Hi Gary:

        For many, their property is their retirement home/long term care fund. Psychologically stressful to see the total drop dramatically - 25% decrease is a hit.

        Bob

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Inside Job

          Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
          Hi Gary:

          For many, their property is their retirement home/long term care fund. Psychologically stressful to see the total drop dramatically - 25% decrease is a hit.

          Bob
          Never heard of these particular economists; I tend to rely on either academic economists at major universities or bank economists especially Bank of Canada. If you can find one economist to predict one thing you can find half a dozen to predict another thing. Economics is not a very precise science. Economists spend a lot of time predicting inflation and interest rates and getting it wrong as often as they get it right.

          There is an old joke that is not too far off. Three economists are out deer hunting and they come across a magnificent stag. One economist misses by 5 feet to the right and the other 5 feet to the left. The third economist doesn't even bother taking a shot as on average they got the deer and they all raise their arms in victory. When there are major drops in house prices it's good to remember that they are not uniform spead among houses, just like housing gains are not uniformly spread either.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Inside Job

            If you look at their home page they are shilling for clients. Skeptical me would say this is possibly a publicity effort (predicting a big dramatic drop in house prices) to attract those clients. Maybe you should sign up for the free trial Bob and let us know how it works out: http://www.capitaleconomics.com/

            Welcome to Capital Economics

            We supply independent economic analysis to institutional and corporate clients across the globe for a fraction of the cost of providing it in-house. Most of our work consists of producing publications which are e-mailed to clients on subscription. In addition, we provide conferences, customised presentations and telephone support. We also undertake some commissioned bespoke research. We intend that our research should help organisations of all sorts to make better business decisions and thereby promote their prosperity. From that, and that alone, will stem our own success.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Inside Job

              Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
              Hi Gary:

              For many, their property is their retirement home/long term care fund. Psychologically stressful to see the total drop dramatically - 25% decrease is a hit.

              Bob
              Hi Bob,

              The 25% drop hasn't come yet. It seems to be a prediction.

              Maybe if people are afraid housing will drop, and it is causing stress, they should talk to a financial adviser regarding the advisability of selling now.

              It seems to me for people simply moving from one house to another, they are buying and selling on the same market. Get less for one and pay less for the other.
              Gary Ruben
              CC - IA and SIM

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Inside Job

                Hi Gary:

                Hope you are right!

                Bob

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Inside Job

                  Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
                  Hi Bob,

                  The 25% drop hasn't come yet. It seems to be a prediction.

                  Maybe if people are afraid housing will drop, and it is causing stress, they should talk to a financial adviser regarding the advisability of selling now.

                  It seems to me for people simply moving from one house to another, they are buying and selling on the same market. Get less for one and pay less for the other.
                  It depends on your mortgage balance, if you have to sell one for less than the current mortgage then you don't have the option of just selling one and buying another in the same market, not without solidifying your loss.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Inside Job

                    Originally posted by Zeljko Kitich View Post
                    It depends on your mortgage balance, if you have to sell one for less than the current mortgage then you don't have the option of just selling one and buying another in the same market, not without solidifying your loss.
                    That's true. Often people wait it out, if they can, when that happens.
                    Gary Ruben
                    CC - IA and SIM

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Inside Job

                      Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
                      That's true. Often people wait it out, if they can, when that happens.
                      They usually can, where it gets dicey is if you've pledged home equity for a small business bank loan. Lesson still is don't buy more home than you can afford.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Inside Job

                        Originally posted by Zeljko Kitich View Post
                        They usually can, where it gets dicey is if you've pledged home equity for a small business bank loan. Lesson still is don't buy more home than you can afford.
                        Wages aren't going up fast enough for that because inflation is low.

                        Back when interest rates and inflation were very high Trudeau was going to "knock the wind out of inflation". He was going to "wrestle inflation to the ground".
                        Gary Ruben
                        CC - IA and SIM

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Inside Job

                          Originally posted by Zeljko Kitich View Post
                          There is an old joke that is not too far off. Three economists are out deer hunting and they come across a magnificent stag. One economist misses by 5 feet to the right and the other 5 feet to the left. The third economist doesn't even bother taking a shot as on average they got the deer and they all raise their arms in victory. When there are major drops in house prices it's good to remember that they are not uniform spead among houses, just like housing gains are not uniformly spread either.
                          There's an even older story that an economist is the guy in the caboose predicting where the train is going.....
                          Fred Harvey

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Inside Job

                            Originally posted by Zeljko Kitich View Post
                            and this just in from CNN news alerts:

                            In the biggest reckoning of the 2008 financial crisis, Bank of America said Wednesday it will pay $8.5 billion to investors burned by fraudulent mortgage securities.


                            The securities, which packaged numerous home mortgages and sold them to investors, faltered after the housing market collapsed.


                            Investors said they had been misled by the packages, many of which were highly rated even though they included mortgages from borrowers with questionable credit.
                            Somehow I doubt that that 8.5 billion is coming out of the pay of the executives....
                            Christopher Mallon
                            FIDE Arbiter

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Inside Job

                              Originally posted by Tom O'Donnell View Post
                              To me, that is the single most evocative paragraph I have ever read on ChessTalk in the roughly 15 years it has been in existence. Bravo!

                              The thing is that up here in Canada we think this time is different. When it comes to bubbles and their aftermath it is never different.
                              Perhaps this is where it will go next:

                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PfPY...eature=related
                              Only the rushing is heard...
                              Onward flies the bird.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Inside Job

                                Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
                                Hi Bob,

                                The 25% drop hasn't come yet. It seems to be a prediction.

                                Maybe if people are afraid housing will drop, and it is causing stress, they should talk to a financial adviser regarding the advisability of selling now.

                                It seems to me for people simply moving from one house to another, they are buying and selling on the same market. Get less for one and pay less for the other.
                                There is another option. Retired chess players should sell their Toronto homes worth half a million dollars and move to Windsor where they can get equivalent accommodation for much less. Somewhat decent older homes can still be had for under $100k. A condo townhouse can be had for about double or triple that if you go for the luxury models. If you really believe the market is going to drop 25% then sell and move somewhere cheaper where the hit wont be as drastic if the apocalyptic scenario unfolds. There are also 10% or higher rental vacancy rates if you don't want to jump in with both feet right away. You can always move back at greatly reduced prices after the price drop materializes.

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