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Wow people making money in America; how could this happen? How much money did they make for the shareholders in return? I still think executive salaries are primarily a concern for shareholders.
Just as governments did a poor job of regulating the financial sector, shareholders have done a poor job of policing their senior executives. When everyone appears to be making money, the proper questions stop being asked. :o
All the "too big to fail" banks were led to the brink of collapse by their senior executive. At the same time they paid themselves enormous bonuses. Shame on the US government who should have fired them all when they bailed them out. But the question that should be asked is "why have the shareholders not fired them?"
Last edited by Bob Gillanders; Tuesday, 15th November, 2011, 11:35 AM.
I've never had anything to do with that company and am not familiar with the people you have mentioned. YOU many do lunch with them but I don't.
Since you're so knowledgeable, maybe you can give us some information on those salaries for that company so we know we aren't reading a "big lie".
What is the base salary each one received? Give us the details of the stock options, if any, and if they are excerciseable or not. Also how many options were excercised.
Maybe a bit of details so we know you aren't dealing in bullsh*t numbers.
The "big lie" always starts out that way, doesn't it? First it's a small porportion of the populaton. Then it gets bigger and before long it's us against them.
One thing which puzzles me. If rich people and companies are so distasteful to chess players, why are those companies targets for donations?
The Occupy Toronto protesters have now been served with eviction notices by the Toronto by-law officers, supported by the Toronto police, re St. James Park, and are now holding a meeting to decide what to do. Many are rejecting the notices. The notices are enforcable at midnight. A Labour reprepresentative has told CP24 that a lawyer is in court seeking an injuction to prevent Occupy Toronto protesters from being removed from St. James Park. The street battle is moving into the courts.
Bob A
Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Tuesday, 15th November, 2011, 01:52 PM.
I've never had anything to do with that company and am not familiar with the people you have mentioned. YOU many do lunch with them but I don't.
Since you're so knowledgeable, maybe you can give us some information on those salaries for that company so we know we aren't reading a "big lie".
What is the base salary each one received? Give us the details of the stock options, if any, and if they are excerciseable or not. Also how many options were excercised.
Maybe a bit of details so we know you aren't dealing in bullsh*t numbers.
Bullsh*t numbers? hahahahahaha
Dont' worry Gary, next time I am out for lunch with Lloyd and the boys, I will demand they provide details of their compensation packages! :D
Dont' worry Gary, next time I am out for lunch with Lloyd and the boys, I will demand they provide details of their compensation packages! :D
You quoted numbers, Bob. Nice big round numbers. Now that I ask a few questions you have to find out the details. So I assume they were Bullsh*t numbers. If you can't show the details it's not good form to single out the people.
Most of the details of the compensations packages are public. You simply have to look them up. See what the shareholders approved.
Just as governments did a poor job of regulating the financial sector, shareholders have done a poor job of policing their senior executives. When everyone appears to be making money, the proper questions stop being asked. :o
All the "too big to fail" banks were led to the brink of collapse by their senior executive. At the same time they paid themselves enormous bonuses. Shame on the US government who should have fired them all when they bailed them out. But the question that should be asked is "why have the shareholders not fired them?"
Is that what we do when things get tough just fire everyone? Perhaps we should have fired you as CFC members when you were CFC President and the organization lost its charitable status? I for one was an unhappy shareholder. If you think that criticism is too biting then consider how it feels when the pawn is on the other square. You did your best? Not good enough, you should not have been allowed to finish off your term, nor should the rest of the exec or anyone who was a governor. Or perhaps none of this criticism is valid and jumping around firing people is not what's needed.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Tuesday, 15th November, 2011, 03:30 PM.
The Occupy Toronto protesters have now been served with eviction notices by the Toronto by-law officers, supported by the Toronto police, re St. James Park, and are now holding a meeting to decide what to do. Many are rejecting the notices. The notices are enforcable at midnight. A Labour reprepresentative has told CP24 that a lawyer is in court seeking an injuction to prevent Occupy Toronto protesters from being removed from St. James Park. The street battle is moving into the courts.
Bob A
And, in other news, the native occupation at Calendonia is still ongoing and the government and the police are still looking the other way - all because it has to do with 'native Canadians' - what a crock. Arrest them all (long overdue in Calendonia, but soon to be long overdue in St. James Park).
Toronto (and Rob Ford in particular) ignored the problem hoping it would go away, now they will end up with a 'situation' of their own making. As usual, the only ones benefiting are the lawyers (many of them might be in the 1% I am thinking)
Why bother evicting the protestors? Just wait a few weeks and Old Man Winter will do the trick!
Well, the main reason to evict them is because they are breaking the law.
In any case, it certainly isn't clear that they will leave even if winter starts.
Toronto will spend thousands, probably tens of thousands of dollars to clean up the park, pay overtime for the cops and bylaw people, replace and repair the park (there is an underground sprinkler system that has to have maintenance before the first freeze otherwise that will need replacing too) - and all for what?
If any 'regular' citizens were to even so much as litter in the park, they likely would be hanged from the nearest lamp post and fined or jailed or both, but these cretins get a free pass.
Ford should have acted on the first day (and I don't live in Toronto or have a pro- or anti- agenda with respect to Rob Ford - I just think his indecision will cost the city a lot of money and shows how much a rookie he is in such matters where a decision has to be made).
Is that what we do when things get tough just fire everyone? Perhaps we should have fired you as CFC members when you were CFC President and the organization lost its charitable status? I for one was an unhappy shareholder. If you think that criticism is too biting then consider how it feels when the pawn is on the other square. You did your best? Not good enough, you should not have been allowed to finish off your term, nor should the rest of the exec or anyone who was a governor. Or perhaps none of this criticism is valid and jumping around firing people is not what's needed.
People should be held accountable for the things they're responsible for, shouldn't they? I think you're aware that Bob was not responsible for the CFC's loss of charitable status but I'm not clear on the point you're trying to make. Are you suggesting that Blankfein shouldn't have been fired because he bore no responsibility for Goldman's situation?
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
People should be held accountable for the things they're responsible for, shouldn't they? I think you're aware that Bob was not responsible for the CFC's loss of charitable status but I'm not clear on the point you're trying to make. Are you suggesting that Blankfein shouldn't have been fired because he bore no responsibility for Goldman's situation?
No I'm suggesting that if it happens under you watch that you take responsibility for it instead of claiming not to have been responsible for anything. I've never been a fan of the Rupert Murdoch type defense.
I'm also suggesting that once responsibility is taken as it should be that firing is only a last resort and is not the only option available or the default position. I'm also not a fan of Donald Trump's approach.
I am not aware as you suggest that Bob had no responsibility as CFC president for whatever happened to the CFC. Nor am I particularly interested in excuses; as a shareholder ie member of the CFC I am not satisfied with what happened under his watch or the other exec or governor's. Oddly enough most of the same people are still in charge today. If you suggest a particular person is not responsible I'd be interested to hear if in your opinion anyone is. Perhaps no one was responsible.
If you suggest that I have no right to say anything as a CFC member I'd be interested as to why you are suggesting this.
There is a difference between heading a bank, paid $14.6 or $69 or $71 million a year, versus heading the CFC for love. If you fire the bank head, yes that's a penalty. If you fire the CFC head, that's a holiday.
There is a difference between heading a bank, paid $14.6 or $69 or $71 million a year, versus heading the CFC for love. If you fire the bank head, yes that's a penalty. If you fire the CFC head, that's a holiday.
So given that, it seems it is not possible to hold the CFC exec or governors accountable for their leadership. Just as if you've paid someone that much of a salary and fire them they can afford their own pretty good holiday.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Tuesday, 15th November, 2011, 06:29 PM.
Number quoted by Reuters for 2007 looks pretty close to what Bob wrote. It was one of the top search engine hits for:
"Lloyd Blankfein" compensation
Is that rocket science?
It says 2 million base salary and stock, which is normally based on performance targets. I notice the bonus two years later was a lot less. Did you read that part? It's not something complainers want to hear as it doesn't make their point.
I'd never heard of most of those guys on his list or ever had anything to do with that company but do find it interesting they are the target of the demonstration.
When it takes around 20 or 25 million to host the Chess Olympiad, those salaries aren't really that much out of line.
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