Occupy Wall Street protest

[Bob Gillanders]

Re: Occupy Wall Street protest

Why don't you become a leader of a new ROBINHOOD party and all of us, 99% eligible voters vote for you, in the next general election?

lol, no thanks. I have had enough politics to last for a very long time. :D

[Ernest Klubis]

Re: Occupy Wall Street protest

lol, no thanks. I have had enough politics to last for a very long time. :D

Our system of government bestows on the prime-minister two very important roles, each in symbiotic tension with the other. First, there is the prime-minister as symbol. It is the face not only of our government but of Canada, to ourselves and to the world. The prime-minister is an icon of Canadian values and culture, our power, our generosity and compassion, our diligence and hard work, our democratic and egalitarian values, and when appropriate, our righteous anger. Each candidate seeks to present him or herself in a way that captures the imagination of the Canadian public, representing an ideal of the best in what we see in ourselves and our country.

But the prime-minister must also be an effective politician, and lead not only his or her party but also the executive branch and our government. If this is not done well, then that first role suffers. That is, if politics fails, the president—and by extension whole Canada—appears incompetent, weak and ineffective. That is not the image that most Canadians want. If that happens, our confidence as a nation falters, and our reputation and influence around the world erode.

Only Bob Gillanders can fulfill both roles as our next leader of Robin Hood party with diligence, hard work and egalitarian values!

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Occupy Wall Street protest

I agree. The so-called elite sit atop the pyramid of wealth and power because there IS a pyramid to sit on.

I was watching the demonstartion about a week ago on TV. They interviewed a federal opposition leader (who must be making over $200,000. a year between his MP salary and leader salary), and they interviewed a well known union leader.

Union dues are tax deductable so it costs me one way or another.

These people are the establishment and they were the face of the Occupy movement when they were interviewed on TV.

If the one percent took their wealth and moved elsewhere, I wonder who the Occupy people would find to blame for their own shortcomings. Like you suggested, where would the pyramid be?

I wonder why chess players, who worship and subsidize the entry fees of the top one percent of players, would get involved in the occupy movement.

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: Occupy Wall Street protest

I was watching the demonstartion about a week ago on TV. They interviewed a federal opposition leader (who must be making over $200,000. a year between his MP salary and leader salary), and they interviewed a well known union leader.

Union dues are tax deductable so it costs me one way or another.

These people are the establishment and they were the face of the Occupy movement when they were interviewed on TV.

If the one percent took their wealth and moved elsewhere, I wonder who the Occupy people would find to blame for their own shortcomings. Like you suggested, where would the pyramid be?

I wonder why chess players, who worship and subsidize the entry fees of the top one percent of players, would get involved in the occupy movement.

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that's like saying that charitable donations are tax deductible so that when other's give to charity it costs me one way or the other and I don't even get to pick the charity

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Occupy Wall Street protest

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that's like saying that charitable donations are tax deductible so that when other's give to charity it costs me one way or the other and I don't even get to pick the charity

Going from memory, union dues are deducted from income. A donation to a charity is treated as a tax credit. Remember income tax 101?

Yes, Zeljko someone giving to a charity costs you and the tax returns are made public. My understanding is the government is looking at making union tax returns public on their web site as well.

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: Occupy Wall Street protest

Going from memory, union dues are deducted from income. A donation to a charity is treated as a tax credit. Remember income tax 101?

Yes, Zeljko someone giving to a charity costs you and the tax returns are made public. My understanding is the government is looking at making union tax returns public on their web site as well.

Remember tax 101? Funny you should mention it but I'm up to tax 842 with my mid-term on Friday. You're splitting invisible hairs because the bottom line in both cases is less tax paid by the tax payer. As to the other issue, here's a financial report of one of the larger unions, didn't have any problem finding it, happy reading. http://cupe.ca/updir/NST%27s_Report_-_March_2011.pdf

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Occupy Wall Street protest

You're splitting invisible hairs because the bottom line in both cases is less tax paid by the tax payer.

Less for the government coffers which has to be made up by others.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Occupy Wall Street protest

I agree. The so-called elite sit atop the pyramid of wealth and power because there IS a pyramid to sit on.

Throughout human civilization, there has ALWAYS been a pyramid to sit on. Go to any country in the world today, and there is a pyramid of wealth and power. Even countries that are called socialist, such as Sweden. That country may well be the closest to a model of egalitarianism that the 20th century produced. But for all that, it still has a pyramid of wealth and power.

I have an idea for these protestors: instead of occupying central squares and parks in major cities and turning people off by their unproductive behavior (meaning that they are beating drums and chanting slogans, but not really DOING anything), they should fan out and "occupy" major shopping malls and SUV dealerships and luxury restaurants, and confront the non-protestors who are so carelessly spending their money on Chinese trinkets and luxury vehicles and 5-star meals, and in doing so perpetuating the pyramid.

Those who yearn for significant change should realize something: whether it's by means of a tax revolt, or by means of a mass withdrawal from banks of life savings, or by means of a mass turning off of all frivolous spending, the only actions that those sitting on the pyramid understand are those that effect the flow of money. Votes don't mean anything to them because they OWN the political parties, all of them. Yes, even the Green Party: should it ever be the crux of political power, it would become owned on that very day by the aristocrats.

As evidence of this, I once again point to the crisis of 2008/2009. When the Libor rate was such that U.S. banks would no longer lend to one another, George W. was in the last days of his presidency and his administration took drastic action because this was the language of money speaking. What was the action? Bailouts of banks and financial firms. When Obama was sworn in in January '09, he had an afternoon meeting with good ol' George. Word had it that George was more serious than he had ever been. Obama emerged from that meeting a very much changed man. And of course, he continued the course of bank and financial firm bailouts.

And then.... a horrifying thing happened. THE AMERICAN PUBLIC STOPPED SPENDING. It was totally unexpected in its scope and breadth. I remember reading op-eds saying that this was the "new normal" (ha!). It was truly remarkable and exceptional. It was a very deep retrenchment, unlike any seen in several generations at least. And the primary benefactor was: the American auto industry.

Well, lo and behold, within weeks we had a Democratic President bailing out GM and Chrysler with taxpayer money invested in public companies. It had to happen "fast and furious" (oh, that's a good one!) because there was literally the possibilty of mass dealership closings, followed within days by closings of thousands of ancilliary companies, primarily auto parts companies spread throughout America. The damage to the economy -- AND TO THE STOCK MARKET, THE BASTION OF THE ARISTOCRACY -- would have been deep enough to cause a depression and years of... unpredictable change.

Obama did the aristocracy's bidding, and any other President would have done exactly the same. When the spending stops, when the real music stops playing, that is when the aristocracy really pays attention.

Unfortunately, the "new normal" was a false alarm. Whatever triggered it didn't have any lasting power. The Obama action may have had a soothing effect, and consumer spending soon was restored to pre-crisis levels.

So you see, these Occupy protests aren't going to make a diddle of difference no matter how long they last. The protestors haven't learned that the power of money is infinitely greater than the power of democracy. And the power of money DOES reside in the working class... if only it could act en masse. It did do that briefly in 2009, but seems to have learned nothing from the experience. That's the saddest part: that the workers have the power but have no idea what it takes to use it and make it stick until the pyramid literally crumbles.

But really it's not that sad after all, because the pyramid always gets rebuilt.

But as a final note: what's going on on Europe is really the last hope for those who yearn for change. That's because in Europe, there is going to be a forced masse retrenchment of the working class spending, of such magnitude that no amount of bailouts will restore it and the pyramids there will crumble. And thanks to what has become the "spaghetti code" of global financial interdependencies and incalculable ownership of intangible assets, Europe's collapse will contagion the entire world.

It's what happens next that really boggles the mind. In fact, I would venture to say that "what happens next" is the one concept that lends credence to the whole notion of an "end of the world" in December 2012.

Which, paradoxically, was predicted by the Mayans, who were.... (are you ready for it?).... builders of pyramids.

[Bob Gillanders]

Re: Occupy Wall Street protest

I have an idea for these protestors: instead of occupying central squares and parks in major cities and turning people off by their unproductive behavior (meaning that they are beating drums and chanting slogans, but not really DOING anything), they should fan out and "occupy" major shopping malls and SUV dealerships and luxury restaurants,...

Paul, I had a similar thought. Why not just reconvene each day for a protest march or occupation in a different location. Sure beats sleeping out in the cold!

[Ernest Klubis]

Re: Occupy Wall Street protest

I have an idea for these protestors: instead of occupying central squares and parks in major cities and turning people off by their unproductive behavior (meaning that they are beating drums and chanting slogans, but not really DOING anything), they should fan out and "occupy" major shopping malls and SUV dealerships and luxury restaurants, and confront the non-protestors who are so carelessly spending their money on Chinese trinkets and luxury vehicles and 5-star meals, and in doing so perpetuating the pyramid.

Paul, you always get fabulous ideas at one o'clock in the morning? This is a truly effective and beneficial thing to do. Why don't you start working on it tommorow morning. And don't forget your cone hat. It would be such a waste if your genious idea will not be implemented in life.

Well, lo and behold, within weeks we had a Democratic President bailing out GM and Chrysler with taxpayer money invested in public companies. It had to happen "fast and furious" (oh, that's a good one!) because there was literally the possibilty of mass dealership closings, followed within days by closings of thousands of ancilliary companies, primarily auto parts companies spread throughout America. The damage to the economy -- AND TO THE STOCK MARKET, THE BASTION OF THE ARISTOCRACY -- would have been deep enough to cause a depression and years of... unpredictable change.

Well, maybe change is unpredictable to you, but it's predictable to everyone else. Middle class will loose their jobs. Sell everything in their possession and finally sell their children to work on the farm like it actually happened in "Seabiscuit". You're total lunatic out of touch with reality. :o

They shoot horses, don't they?

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Occupy Wall Street protest

They shoot horses, don't they?

Jane Fonda was great in that movie.

[Zeljko Kitich]

Re: Occupy Wall Street protest

In communist countries there was and is a red bourgeois elite 1%. Do you really think communist party members and high officials were treated like everyone else? Workers paradise? Hardly. In China this still goes on.

[Bob Gillanders]

Re: Occupy Wall Street protest

Only Bob Gillanders can fulfill both roles as our next leader of Robin Hood party with diligence, hard work and egalitarian values!

Do I detect a note of sarcasm?
But Ernest, there are no leaders of Occupy Wall Street. This is a good thing since protest leaders sometimes end up in jail.

[Bob Gillanders]

Re: Occupy Wall Street protest

In communist countries there was and is a red bourgeois elite 1%. Do you really think communist party members and high officials were treated like everyone else? Workers paradise? Hardly. In China this still goes on.

I hope you are not suggesting Occupy Wall Street is a communist movement! Is it not.

I would characterize the movement more of a "how do we improve our current capitalist/socialist hybrid economic system" so that it better serves all of us.

[Peter McKillop]

Re: Occupy Wall Street protest

Hi Paul. Thanks for an interesting and well written note. Hope to find the time to respond in the next day or two.

p.s. loved the tie-in with the Mayans/2012!! :)