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I've read enough writings from various activists (I'm on an email distribution list as it happens) to have an understanding of what their views are and those views go way beyond what someone with a PhD behind his name voices.
On the basis of your readings, has this led you to the conclusion that OWS is predominantly a communist movement?
Can you teach your mynah
To say "Communist China" ?
Far and away, USA imports more goods from The People's Republic of China than from any other country. The Occupy people want to have more trade with Indiana, or some place in Illinois might do. Wouldn't that make them anti-communists? Dead, comatose, bugbear, pink herring; choose your tag, any five. Moribund. Do I hear six? Disoccupy China and then start talking Communism.
Did anybody hear "Brenda Lee" sing the Soviet ^H^H^H^H^H^H Russian national anthem at the hockey game yesterday? They changed the words so the same tune is now the Russian anthem. I thought she sang it rather well, and it took a lot of stamina because I'm guessing they didn't want to cut any verses. Don't want to offend the guests. A couple of the Russian players were smiling or laughing, but most seemed appreciative. I can't say I understood what she was singing, but then lyrics like "true patriot love, in all thy sons' command" also wouldn't necessarily mean anything to a native English speaker who didn't happen to live here.
I know some communists in Hamilton. They are quite comfortable with the ideals and goals of the Occupy Movement. Much of the activist literature I have read is in line with communist ideals as well.
However, since you are in a mood to mock me for saying they are anti-capitalist then I think we can skip the discussion and you can get back to your armchair protesting. You might actually try reading what activists are writing some time.
On the basis of your readings, has this led you to the conclusion that OWS is predominantly a communist movement?
I have concluded and have tried to explain above that they are not predominantly anything. As I said you have to listen to all the individual voices of the protest. They are not on the same page, will never get on the same page and as such do not stand for anything specific. There is a significant element of anti-capitalism and ideology that a communist like Karl Marx would be quite comfortable with.
You seem to think they stand for whatever you want to say they stand for. So what do they stand for Bob? You previously indicated that you cannot speak for them. Has this changed?
Can you teach your mynah
To say "Communist China" ?
Far and away, USA imports more goods from The People's Republic of China than from any other country. The Occupy people want to have more trade with Indiana, or some place in Illinois might do. Wouldn't that make them anti-communists? Dead, comatose, bugbear, pink herring; choose your tag, any five. Moribund. Do I hear six? Disoccupy China and then start talking Communism.
Did anybody hear "Brenda Lee" sing the Soviet ^H^H^H^H^H^H Russian national anthem at the hockey game yesterday? They changed the words so the same tune is now the Russian anthem. I thought she sang it rather well, and it took a lot of stamina because I'm guessing they didn't want to cut any verses. Don't want to offend the guests. A couple of the Russian players were smiling or laughing, but most seemed appreciative. I can't say I understood what she was singing, but then lyrics like "true patriot love, in all thy sons' command" also wouldn't necessarily mean anything to a native English speaker who didn't happen to live here.
So your theory is that this was started by the Indiana chamber of commerce and that the occupy protestors support capitalism but want protectionist trade measures? Can you teach your parrot to say softwood lumber dispute is good for Canada? So the occupy protestors in Canada want the US to limit trade with Canada and instead buy American because they are in solidarity with their American compatriots?
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Thursday, 17th November, 2011, 06:01 PM.
Re: Occupy Toronto & Members of Faith Communities
Members of Faith Communities are getting involved in support of Occupy Toronto:
From: MICHAEL POLANYI <michaelpolanyi@rogers.com>
Date: Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 7:10 AM
Subject: Upcoming Faith-related Occupy Toronto Actions - please SHARE
To: "michaelpolanyi@rogers.com" <michaelpolanyi@rogers.com>
Dear Friends:
Thirty people from various faith communities met last night at the Church of Holy Trinity with members of Occupy Toronto.
We discussed ways to support Occupy Toronto and its call for justice on the eve of a possible forceful eviction.
Here are five ways we are calling on people of faith to show solidarity in the coming days:
1. Prepare to provide a peaceful witness should the eviction occur by signing up for a 2-hour training in faith-based non-violent action training TOMORROW (Friday) at 4-6 pm at St. James Park
2. Publicly demonstrate our solidarity with Occupy Toronto and opposition to a forced eviction by joining the mass rally and march to City Hall on Saturday at 2 pm. Meet at St. James Park. If you can't make it in person call or email Mayor Rob Ford and your City Councillor urging them not to forcibly evict the protestors but to work towards a peaceful, mutually agreeable way forward.
3. Monitor the news and social media and join our urgent-response phone tree in order to be ready to go to St. James Park should an eviction begin (most like to happen during the night). Send your cell-phone number to Alexa at minister@windermerechurch.ca to receive a call/text should eviction begin.
4. Show solidarity by attending the Faith Outreach Day at St. James Park on Sunday, November 27. Email Bob at bobmce2002@yahoo.com for more information.
5. Donate or volunteer time or money to Occupy Toronto. They now accept donations through Alterna Savings (Danforth Branch, Account # 5025569). They also need donations on-site of hot or non-perishable food, sleeping bags, warm clothing and more (see www.occuptyto.org). They always need volunteers to help cook and serve meals and help in other ways. They appreciate the presence and listening ear of clergy and members of faith communities.
Finally, please join us at the next Faith and Occupy Toronto meeting on Wednesday, December 7 at 7 pm (location TBA).
You seem to think they stand for whatever you want to say they stand for. So what do they stand for Bob? You previously indicated that you cannot speak for them. Has this changed?
There are many voices, no leaders have emerged yet. As such, I do not speak for OWS, never have.
I have expressed my opinions, and have commented on various positions that some OWS supporters have expressed. My preference is that the less militant and reasonable people involved become the most influential.
I was not mocking you, but the position that some people have concluded that OWS is run by communists. IMHO, it is not.
We actually agree on many points. But you continue to misinterpret my posts as insults, they are not. I just wish to inject some humour.
There are many voices, no leaders have emerged yet. As such, I do not speak for OWS, never have.
I have expressed my opinions, and have commented on various positions that some OWS supporters have expressed. My preference is that the less militant and reasonable people involved become the most influential.
I was not mocking you, but the position that some people have concluded that OWS is run by communists. IMHO, it is not.
We actually agree on many points. But you continue to misinterpret my posts as insults, they are not. I just wish to inject some humour.
Good luck getting your preference. You can always cross your fingers if you think it will help :) (my humor intejection). If you think the less militant will become the most influential when this is in large part about confrontation - verbal and physical - and radical ideology then I don't think you have quite grasped what the movement is about. That may be your middle of the road hope but this isn't about middle of the road - unless it's about sitting down in the middle of the road to block traffic; this is about polarization. Have you studied past mass movements - do you know how they have played out in history?
I agree it is not run by communists, and I will repeat once again it is not run by anyone. They are not on the same page, they will never be on the same page and they are not planning to ever be on the same page. There will be no one message, there will continue to be more messages than variations of the Sicillian defense. There are various elements and various voices. If some of the voices talk the communist talk then I'm going to suggest that they know what they are saying, why they are saying it and what they hope to achieve by saying it. If I hear and read the talk and you don't then don't suggest that the talk does not exist and that I'm just hearing things. Apparently you are only hearing what you are hoping to hear - a less militant and reasonable message that you are hoping will prevail.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Thursday, 17th November, 2011, 06:44 PM.
Good luck getting your preference. You can always cross your fingers if you think it will help :) (my humor intejection). If you think the less militant will become the most influential when this is in large part about confrontation - verbal and physical - and radical ideology then I don't think you have quite grasped what the movement is about. That may be your middle of the road hope but this isn't about middle of the road - unless it's about sitting down in the middle of the road to block traffic; this is about polarization. Have you studied past mass movements - do you know how they have played out in history?
I agree it is not run by communists, and I will repeat once again it is not run by anyone. They are not on the same page, they will never be on the same page and they are not planning to ever be on the same page. There will be no one message, there will continue to be more messages than variations of the Sicillian defense. There are various elements and various voices. If some of the voices talk the communist talk then I'm going to suggest that they know what they are saying, why they are saying it and what they hope to achieve by saying it. If I hear and read the talk and you don't then don't suggest that the talk does not exist and that I'm just hearing things. Apparently you are only hearing what you are hoping to hear - a less militant and reasonable message that you are hoping will prevail.
What is this "communist talk" to which you're referring? Do you have a couple of examples you can share?
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
How about the desire for the redistribution of wealth which seems to be at the center of this?
Perhaps, but not necessarily. For example, some people say that the biological precept 'survival of the fittest' is also the ethical basis of capitalism. If that is so, then we must not forget that a corollary to that precept is 'strength in numbers'. If the 'numbers' bring about a redistribution of wealth then, depending on circumstances, can that not be a valid event within the framework of capitalism?
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
I don't think so. I also doubt the movement has enough popular support. Many who don't support this are worse off than the protesters.
Yesterday the front page of the Globe and Mail had Lightfoot and his daughter at the protest. I doubt many really believe Lightfoot is hard done by. He's music royalty in this nation. He has most if not all of the order honours available to him.
Blaming one precent of the population for the problems of the rest is a 1930's tactic.
What is this "communist talk" to which you're referring? Do you have a couple of examples you can share?
First of all how much do you know about Marxism? Would you recognize it if you saw it? Secondly perhaps if you or others are claiming the movement is this or that then you should already have done your research into the individual voices coming out of the movement. If not you can try this one on for size http://www.versobooks.com/blogs/777-...ts-its-nemesis but no I'm not going to link to several examples and debate endlessly the meaning behind the links.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Friday, 18th November, 2011, 12:23 AM.
Re: Occupy Toronto - Gets Reprieve Extension to Monday
Posted on CBC Website:
A Toronto judge tasked with deciding whether Occupy Toronto protesters should be allowed to stay in St. James Park will now be making his decision on Monday, extending the original Saturday deadline.
Occupy Toronto was granted a temporary reprieve against a city-issued eviction notice on Tuesday, which could have forced them out of the park as of 12:01 ET on Wednesday.
Bylaw officers taped eviction notices to tents on Tuesday morning, threatening the closure of the encampment that has been in place since Oct. 15.
The injunction granted by Judge David Brown — a former Bay street lawyer — put the eviction of Toronto occupiers on hold, saying he needed more time to review the eviction order.
Brown will hear arguments on Friday, and on Monday he will decide if the eviction notice should be enforced, or if the encampment will be allowed to continue indefinitely.
He originally said he would make his decision by Saturday. No reason for the delay has been given.
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