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Don't be so naive as to believe that this is not a problem in Canada as well.
In Canada politicians are required to put their investments into a blind trust. They are not directing their own investments. I haven't heard of this being an issue in Canada so as they say innocent until proven guilty.
In Canada politicians are required to put their investments into a blind trust. They are not directing their own investments. I haven't heard of this being an issue in Canada so as they say innocent until proven guilty.
man can you believe it, just too much, doesn't anyone have ethics anymore in America?
It certainly raises lots of interesting questions. For instance:
1. Could a sharp lawyer argue that, for example, Martha Stewart's trial & conviction were a denial of her constitutional right to due process? (i.e. the laws do not apply fairly to all citizens)
2. Zeljko, you asked, doesn't anyone have ethics anymore in America? Could it also be asked, has anything really changed in America (i.e. was there ever really a time when American legislators were, on the whole, highly ethical?), or is it a case of same-old, same-old but with more public awareness these days due to improved access to information?
Here's a reading recommendation:
What Is America?: A Short History of the New World Order
by Ronald Wright
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
It certainly raises lots of interesting questions. For instance:
1. Could a sharp lawyer argue that, for example, Martha Stewart's trial & conviction were a denial of her constitutional right to due process? (i.e. the laws do not apply fairly to all citizens)
2. Zeljko, you asked, doesn't anyone have ethics anymore in America? Could it also be asked, has anything really changed in America (i.e. was there ever really a time when American legislators were, on the whole, highly ethical?), or is it a case of same-old, same-old but with more public awareness these days due to improved access to information?
Here's a reading recommendation:
What Is America?: A Short History of the New World Order
by Ronald Wright
In relative terms America is pretty corruption free; when you compare to the rampant & indemic corruption in China, Russia, Thailand, Mexico, much of eastern Europe and the Balkans under communist rule, various countries in Africa where people starve to death as a result, the US looks like the best of the bunch.
I suppose to your credit you are appaled at any level of corruption. However, if you understood the amount of corruption and violence elsewhere in the world you might start seeing the USA in a better light.
Martha Stewart's mistake was that she actually would have made money had she not tried to use insider trading. The drug that was not approved that caused her to dump the stock was actually approved later and the stock went up. I do believe you are invoking the old speeders excuse that if they can't pull everyone over who is speeding they don't have a right to pull over anyone. You're like the traffic cop pulling over the United States guy who is 5km/hr over the speed limit while other cars are going by at light speed.
Sharp lawyers can argue anything and everything under the sun.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Thursday, 24 November, 2011, 11:51 PM.
Neither of those two cases involve insider trading of stock from information received in course of office. Wasn't Chretien cleared in the Shawinigate case? In any case Wikipedia is not a reliable source and in this case rather an incomplete summary.
Really? That's a credible source for information on Canada? With a big picture of Trotsky on the site?
Can you explain to me exactly why I should be listening to communists on some random, obscure website as a source of information about Canada? Why would you even link such a thing? Why would the person who added it to Wiki?
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Thursday, 24 November, 2011, 11:42 PM.
Reason: communist link
In relative terms America is pretty corruption free; when you compare to the rampant & indemic corruption in China, Russia, Thailand, Mexico, much of eastern Europe and the Balkans under communist rule, various countries in Africa where people starve to death as a result, the US looks like the best of the bunch.
I suppose to your credit you are appaled at any level of corruption. However, if you understood the amount of corruption and violence elsewhere in the world you might start seeing the USA in a better light.
However, when you compare the US to modern western democracies, they don't stack up so well. If the citizens expect their politicians to be just a little bit better than the worst, then that is all they will get.
The american youth get fed this constant propaganda about how great their country is. The richest, most democratic, blah, blah, blah,....well now their eyes are being opened up, and they don't like what they see.
Kudos to the OWS youth who say this isn't good enough. Their elected representatives don't even understand what conflict of interest means.
However, when you compare the US to modern western democracies, they don't stack up so well. If the citizens expect their politicians to be just a little bit better than the worst, then that is all they will get.
The american youth get fed this constant propaganda about how great their country is. The richest, most democratic, blah, blah, blah,....well now their eyes are being opened up, and they don't like what they see.
Kudos to the OWS youth who say this isn't good enough. Their elected representatives don't even understand what conflict of interest means.
Is Mexico not a modern western democracy? If not what is it? Aren't all states modern in the sense that we are talking about how they are right now?
Don't get me wrong, America needs to be kept corruption free but only talking about America as if it was the entire focus of evil in the world is narrow sited. America by and large works and has saved the world in at least two world wars.
Kudos to the OWS youth for making it all about their 99% middle class privelege and not about the developing world where people are starving to death due to corruption. Americans are a pretty insular people to begin with and this just shows that even their youth have given up on any pretense of speaking out about the majority of the people on the planet. China alone is a major human rights violator but that all you get about China in the media today is how smugly they are holding onto American debt; but apparently we are okay with China's violations because they don't claim to be a democracy?
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Friday, 25 November, 2011, 09:15 AM.
In relative terms America is pretty corruption free; when you compare to the rampant & indemic corruption in China, Russia, Thailand, Mexico, much of eastern Europe and the Balkans under communist rule, various countries in Africa where people starve to death as a result, the US looks like the best of the bunch.
I suppose to your credit you are appaled at any level of corruption. However, if you understood the amount of corruption and violence elsewhere in the world you might start seeing the USA in a better light.
Martha Stewart's mistake was that she actually would have made money had she not tried to use insider trading. The drug that was not approved that caused her to dump the stock was actually approved later and the stock went up. I do believe you are invoking the old speeders excuse that if they can't pull everyone over who is speeding they don't have a right to pull over anyone. You're like the traffic cop pulling over the United States guy who is 5km/hr over the speed limit while other cars are going by at light speed.
Sharp lawyers can argue anything and everything under the sun.
For most of the last century and to date in this century, the US has touted itself as the modern day home of democracy; the standard to which others should aspire. If they want this to be a credible proposition then they can't be satisfied with an oh well at least we're not as bad as so-and-so standard.
In this case, I don't think your speeding analogy works. It would work if there was a small, privileged class of people (other than emergency & police vehicles) who were exempt, for no good reason other than their own sense of entitlement, from the speeding laws that applied to everyone else in the country.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Zeljko - you claim to be well read and knowledgable on the OWS movement, however every time you post, you appear to know nothing about it. OWS is a global movement, not just the USA. The 99% include all the middle class and poor worldwide. You criticize the american OWS youth for not focusing on poorer countries, but is it not wise for them to clean up corruption in their own backyard first? Saying that there are bigger problems elsewhere is not a legitimate excuse for not tackling a problem.
... Don't get me wrong, America needs to be kept corruption free but only talking about America as if it was the entire focus of evil in the world is narrow sited. ...
Who is saying that America is the entire focus of evil in the world?
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
For most of the last century and to date in this century, the US has touted itself as the modern day home of democracy; the standard to which others should aspire. If they want this to be a credible proposition then they can't be satisfied with an oh well at least we're not as bad as so-and-so standard.
In this case, I don't think your speeding analogy works. It would work if there was a small, privileged class of people (other than emergency & police vehicles) who were exempt, for no good reason other than their own sense of entitlement, from the speeding laws that applied to everyone else in the country.
They are 'exempt' - they are exempt because the self appointed traffic cops are focusing on the USA going 5 over while China and other nations are zooming by at 200 km/hr with human rights violations. They are exempt because many people know very little about what is happening in the first place. What's going on in Mexico is extremely serious and scary - people are killed and bodies are dumped in the streets with impunity, the media is violently intimidated. Why are we not talking about Mexico at all except to talk about our vacations?
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