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2. If the answer to 1 is no, would you please provide me with a link to the new site?
3. Is it reasonable to expect that the agenda, minutes and reports from the 2011 OCA AGM will be posted at the OCA's website soon?
4. Will it happen before the 2012 AGM?
Please don't rush on my account.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
If you were wondering my name you could have looked on the website which you correctly stated. So (1) yes that is still the OCA's website. The minutes from the 2011 AGM are another matter unfortunately. I have tried to get them via multiple emails and a face to face talk with the former secretary, asking him to send me anything and that I would put everything together myself. However, he is no longer secretary and it appears he no longer has any desire to send them. Believe me, getting handed the reigns without the specifics of what was decided on is not the most pleasant position to be in. However, Mike von Keitz was extremely helpful and we were able to get things sorted out. I still hope to get the minutes out of the former secretary at some point in the future, but it seems pretty low on his priority list. I'll keep hounding him but there is nothing more I can do to speed up the process at this point. When and if I get them, I will most certainly post them on the website.
I would also like to mention that apart from the 2011 minutes, agenda etc, I have also made some progress with getting the 2004 minutes and they (hopefully) will be posted by the 2012 AGM.
I would also like to mention that I'd like to see the 2012 AGM for the OCA be online to facilitate increased participation across all of Ontario as well as avoid this unpleasantness in the future.
My email address is also on the website, feel free to contact me about anything (but It'd be awesome if it were chess related).
I was the Secretary of the Ontario Chess Association in 2010-2011. Given that there was no incoming secretary and I had no intention of doing it a second year, taking the 2011 AGM minutes fell to me. I agreed to organize and type them at my leisure. Certainly there is no excuse as to why this hasn't happened yet. With Michael von Keitz, I've dug them up on one or two occasions to verify some figures relevant to this year's affairs to ensure that what was discussed at the AGM be followed through correctly. It is true that both Michael and Rob Clark have sent me some e-mails reminding me of this matter but as Rob mentioned, it's been low on my priority list. I'll pass them along this week and they should be published soon.
A couple of years ago I applied to an agency for funding. I thought I was well prepared for the interview, but one question threw me: "What is the role of the OCA?"
I froze in stunned silence, then stammered some sort of generic baffle-gab answer.
Which, when you think of it, was a pretty accurate description.
If you were wondering my name you could have looked on the website which you correctly stated. So (1) yes that is still the OCA's website. The minutes from the 2011 AGM are another matter unfortunately. I have tried to get them via multiple emails and a face to face talk with the former secretary, asking him to send me anything and that I would put everything together myself. However, he is no longer secretary and it appears he no longer has any desire to send them. Believe me, getting handed the reigns without the specifics of what was decided on is not the most pleasant position to be in. However, Mike von Keitz was extremely helpful and we were able to get things sorted out. I still hope to get the minutes out of the former secretary at some point in the future, but it seems pretty low on his priority list. I'll keep hounding him but there is nothing more I can do to speed up the process at this point. When and if I get them, I will most certainly post them on the website.
I would also like to mention that apart from the 2011 minutes, agenda etc, I have also made some progress with getting the 2004 minutes and they (hopefully) will be posted by the 2012 AGM.
I would also like to mention that I'd like to see the 2012 AGM for the OCA be online to facilitate increased participation across all of Ontario as well as avoid this unpleasantness in the future.
My email address is also on the website, feel free to contact me about anything (but It'd be awesome if it were chess related).
All the best
Hi Rob...
Your post reminded me (all too clearly) of the similar situation I found myself in: I became treasurer of the OCA after the AGM in Brampton where a number of us showed up primarily to make sure Barry Thorvardsen (spelling?) was NOT going to have a chance to remain with the OCA in any capacity. [turns out that was perhaps not necessary since the first thing he did was announce that he would not be standing for any position - I don't know whether that was due to the obvious opposition or he had already decided to step away]
To continue... I was elected Treasurer, and for the next half a year, all of us on the OCA executive were unable to get *any* bank records, paperwork, ledgers or anything at all out of the previous folks. The bank account information was unavailable (other than the cute information that the balance was -$2). Chris Mallon and Brett Campbell and I decided to open a new bank account for the OCA with 2 of 3 signatures required (with the Trillium fiasco well in mind).
Approximately half way through that year, I resigned as Treasurer due to a number of reasons (not related to the position itself). The OCA does little more than redistribute the Ontario portion of the CFC membership fees back to the leagues that comprise the OCA - GTCL, EOCL, SWOCL, NOCL and when I was Treasurer, that was done by proportioning the rebate from the CFC according to a postal code census of the registered CFC members (more or less - there were some old scores to settle and some monies that had apparently been deferred from other years and similar baggage to deal with - all fun as you can imagine). Other than processing an OCA Life Membership from Robert Armstrong, and using some of the CFC rebate to the OCA for a traditional donation to the Ontario Championship, that was the extent of the financial transaction load...
All the best in your quest to get the OCA on the right track.
Thanks for the update, Robert. Yes, I saw the list of officers, etc., at the website but didn't know whether it was the current list (no date that I could see). Looking forward to seeing the 2011 minutes.
Regards,
Pete
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
... To continue... I was elected Treasurer, and for the next half a year, all of us on the OCA executive were unable to get *any* bank records, paperwork, ledgers or anything at all out of the previous folks. The bank account information was unavailable (other than the cute information that the balance was -$2). Chris Mallon and Brett Campbell and I decided to open a new bank account for the OCA with 2 of 3 signatures required (with the Trillium fiasco well in mind). ... (bold type is my addition - P. McK.)
This is another thing I don't understand: the original bank was required to allow you access to the OCA's account(s) or provide you with a reasonable explanation as to why you couldn't have access (e.g. maybe there had been a problem of some type and the bank didn't wish to deal with the OCA anymore - even so, the bank would still have been required to allow you access to the old account information; old statements, copies of cancelled cheques, etc.). It must have been more than just a documentation problem (new signing authorities required to reflect the new officers). I think all the Canadian sched. 'A' banks have an ombudsman (ombudsperson?). Did you guys press hard and refer the matter up the ladder? Even today, that bank would be required to allow the current slate of OCA officers access to the old account information once the bank was satisfied as to the bona fides of the current officers.
Once the OCA had access to the old bank account, it could have ordered replacement copies of bank statements at a nominal price - in fact, those old statements might have been available online for a nominal price (or even for free at some banks). The old statements could have been perused and, for a higher but not unreasonable price, copies of interesting (due to the amount, say) but missing cancelled cheques could have been ordered.
Another thing that has always puzzled me, possibly related to the issues with the old bank, is why would Trillium base their investigation/assessment of what happened just on discussions with Thorvardson and Bond. I'm not suggesting that the [WARNING: SARCASM AHEAD] reputations of Thorvardson and Bond had preceded them, but I am suggesting that if Trillium was concerned about what might have happened to the grant monies, then wouldn't it be logical that they would want to see documentation, including bank statements, cancelled cheques, etc.? Could this be why Thorvardson and his ineffective (from the perspective of some OCA members) Treasurers (Ferrier & Lamer?) didn't have banking records to turn over to the incoming executive?; because Trillium had the info?
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
This is another thing I don't understand: the original bank was required to allow you access to the OCA's account(s) or provide you with a reasonable explanation as to why you couldn't have access (e.g. maybe there had been a problem of some type and the bank didn't wish to deal with the OCA anymore - even so, the bank would still have been required to allow you access to the old account information; old statements, copies of cancelled cheques, etc.). It must have been more than just a documentation problem (new signing authorities required to reflect the new officers). I think all the Canadian sched. 'A' banks have an ombudsman (ombudsperson?). Did you guys press hard and refer the matter up the ladder? Even today, that bank would be required to allow the current slate of OCA officers access to the old account information once the bank was satisfied as to the bona fides of the current officers.
Once the OCA had access to the old bank account, it could have ordered replacement copies of bank statements at a nominal price - in fact, those old statements might have been available online for a nominal price (or even for free at some banks). The old statements could have been perused and, for a higher but not unreasonable price, copies of interesting (due to the amount, say) but missing cancelled cheques could have been ordered.
Another thing that has always puzzled me, possibly related to the issues with the old bank, is why would Trillium base their investigation/assessment of what happened just on discussions with Thorvardson and Bond. I'm not suggesting that the [WARNING: SARCASM AHEAD] reputations of Thorvardson and Bond had preceded them, but I am suggesting that if Trillium was concerned about what might have happened to the grant monies, then wouldn't it be logical that they would want to see documentation, including bank statements, cancelled cheques, etc.? Could this be why Thorvardson and his ineffective (from the perspective of some OCA members) Treasurers (Ferrier & Lamer?) didn't have banking records to turn over to the incoming executive?; because Trillium had the info?
Peter, we were unable to even determine in WHICH Bank the account(s) were housed - at least I never found out that information. Barry was singularly less than helpful... and it seems once "his" regime was ousted, nobody was interested in answering any queries (I believe many if not all of the OCA Executive during Barry's tenure were from the same club or geographical area). If we knew the Bank or especially the branch, we certainly could have requested the information directly from the bank.
I do not know whether Trillium was given any paperwork about the disbursement of the funds - I would hope they required *something* (!) but I do not know what that might have been.
I agree with your concern that the " facts " and " opinions " on the OCA Trillium fiasco have to be publicly available, to put to rest misguided rumour, and to help the credibility of the OCA in the light of this event.
I think the executive ordered investigative reports are on the OCA website ( though I have not yet had time to go and check - I think someone told me they are there somewhere - true? ). But I sent in my one person volunteer member investigative report I spent some considerable time on, to the executive. But I don't think it has ever been posted. Do you know if it is there? If not, do you think it should be?
Peter, we were unable to even determine in WHICH Bank the account(s) were housed - at least I never found out that information. Barry was singularly less than helpful... and it seems once "his" regime was ousted, nobody was interested in answering any queries (I believe many if not all of the OCA Executive during Barry's tenure were from the same club or geographical area). If we knew the Bank or especially the branch, we certainly could have requested the information directly from the bank.
I do not know whether Trillium was given any paperwork about the disbursement of the funds - I would hope they required *something* (!) but I do not know what that might have been.
Wow! It seems to me that someone, maybe Chris Mallon, might have alluded to this a couple of years ago but I thought he was just putting me on and I didn't believe him. What's really hard to believe is that someone like Hal Bond could have been OCA VP for 3 consecutive years during the BT era and yet apparently not have known where the OCA kept its bank account. In fact, I find that really, really hard to believe.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Hi Bob. I couldn't find any reports about Trillium (other than Hal Bond's VP's report at the 2008 agm) at the OCA website. I think your report should be posted there because as far as I know it was the only attempt made to pull together the available information about Trillium.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Let bygones be bygones or watch Burn after Reading.
It would much productive to discuss what/how/where a new chess project would get finance from Trillium. Even after "05-06 fiasco, the Windsor group got a grant in 2010.
Hi Bob. I couldn't find any reports about Trillium (other than Hal Bond's VP's report at the 2008 agm) at the OCA website. I think your report should be posted there because as far as I know it was the only attempt made to pull together the available information about Trillium.
OCA - Trillium - Posting of the " Armstrong Report "
Hi Rob Clark, OCA President
Would you please consider posting my volunteer report I did on the OCA Trillium matter, on the OCA Website, wherever there are other public postings of reports, etc. on this matter? It was posted on the members' CFC Chess Chat Forum on April 1, 2010, and Egis has given the link to it in the archive ( I guess ).
I think all information on it should be available to the public, given its nature, and the credibility problem it still creates for OCA.
Also, Peter McKillop, a regular poster here, has indicated he thinks it should be posted.
Please post here your decision.
Thx.
Bob A, author of report
Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Thursday, 9th February, 2012, 09:14 AM.
... What's really hard to believe is that someone like Hal Bond could have been OCA VP for 3 consecutive years during the BT era and yet apparently not have known where the OCA kept its bank account. In fact, I find that really, really hard to believe.
I'd like to clarify the above because it makes it look like I'm calling Hal Bond a liar. I do *not* believe that Hal Bond is a liar. I do believe, referring to what Kerry said earlier in this thread, that Hal truly did not know where the OCA kept its bank account. What I find so incredibly hard to believe is simply what I said above: that someone with Hal Bond's experience and savvy, both chess and business, could be elected three years running to the VP position in the OCA and yet not know where the OCA kept its bank account. Amazing.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
We knew where the bank was, I'm pretty sure we had the account number.
For whatever reason, TD would not release the account to us as the new Executive - I don't recall exactly anymore, it's been a few years. After a couple months of trying we gave up and opened a new account at another bank.
The reason Trillium didn't need lots of extra paperwork was likely that Barry admitted right away that he had in fact paid himself... so the question was never "what was done with the money" but "what should be done about it" which in the end, for Trillium, was "don't do that again" ...
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