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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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Evaluation of Current CYCC Playing Up Policy of CFC
Posted on the confidential CFC Governors' Discussion Board:
Evaluation of Current CYCC Playing Up Policy of CFC
Although some concerns have now been raised on the public discussion boards about the CFC Policy on CYCC Playing Up, they have been limited.
Also, this seems to be the first time CFC has publicized a detailed, comprehensive and clear policy on this, and advertised it well in advance of the year's CYCC.
So rather than bringing a motion to the CFC AGM in July as I had planned, I am inclined now to wait for the 2012 CYCC in July in Vancouver to conclude, and then do an evaluation of the extent to which there were " playing up " registrations, and whether there were any processing problems with the applications, and whether any issues surfaced around the issue.
Since I do still personally have some concerns about the policy, I would then be in position to decide whether any motion amending the policy needed to be brought to the 2012 Fall ( October ) Governors' On-line Meeting, affecting the 2013 CYCC.
Its not a question of playing older Jonathan. All of the sections are "X and under sections" not 10 and 11, 12 and 13, etc.
Good luck in your upcoming applications to the Canadian Opens of Tennis and Golf, Ken. Don't bet too much on the Yomiuri Giants winning the "World" Series of Baseball. There are "Open" chess tournaments that you can't play in because your rating is not at their threshold. Labels often elide restrictions. Through 2007, nobody talked about playing older, even though the same section names were used. If the CFC rules have changed expectations, one might consider reversion. Events are also sometimes less restrictive than they appear. As a Senior Arbiter at the 1984 Men's Chess Olympiad, I supervised a time scramble involving Rani Hamid, proud mother of five.
Taken in isolation, a 9-year-old might have reason to feel ill-treated in being excluded from a U12 event, but not when there is a populated U10 event in the same room, at the same time, and at the same price.
With all the organizing you've done, and all the players you've seen drop out by the time they get into their 20's, I'm amazed you've learned so little.
So many players who curtailed their tournament careers for Uni or family life. So much to learn. So little connection with your criticism of young players who try to improve by challenging themselves in strong events.
So many players who curtailed their tournament careers for Uni or family life. So much to learn.
Right! It's never because when they tried international they weren't good enough and you can't make a living playing in Canada. It couldn't have been a result of the system failing them. A system which looks to me like it's not designed to develop players and bring them along to world class standards.
Right! It's never because when they tried international they weren't good enough and you can't make a living playing in Canada. It couldn't have been a result of the system failing them. A system which looks to me like it's not designed to develop players and bring them along to world class standards.
I'd go farther. There is no Canada system for developing chess talent to an international level. It's hit-and-miss, individual initiative, rarely local or provincial initiative. It's Bobby versus the World. But I still don't see why you criticized young players for trying to improve their chess via strong tournaments.
If you want to start such a system, how about a new thread? Note, donations are no longer tax-deductible.
But I still don't see why you criticized young players for trying to improve their chess via strong tournaments.
If you want to start such a system, how about a new thread? Note, donations are no longer tax-deductible.
No, I don't like a policy which allows juniors to play up several groups and have to compete at the world juniors at that level. I don't see skipping steps as a way to develop talent. No player should be too big to play at their age level.
I don't donate to OTB chess. I donate to the CCCA which also is not tax-deductible. I once gave thought to matching the donation but quickly came to my senses. :)
No, I don't like a policy which allows juniors to play up several groups and have to compete at the world juniors at that level. I don't see skipping steps as a way to develop talent. No player should be too big to play at their age level.
I don't donate to OTB chess. I donate to the CCCA which also is not tax-deductible. I once gave thought to matching the donation but quickly came to my senses. :)
It's difficult to discuss this with Jonathan. I think he's firm on his point of view. He even wants to know if I coached the Leafs. If I had the drought would be over. :)
No, I don't like a policy which allows juniors to play up several groups and have to compete at the world juniors at that level. I don't see skipping steps as a way to develop talent. No player should be too big to play at their age level.
If someone plays up several age groups and win, why shouldn't it be right that he/she competes in that age group at the World Youth ? It is not skipping steps then. It is simply taking the proper steps. If someone wants to become a GM by age 14 ("If you are not a GM by age 14 you might as well forget it. - Anand), baby steps won't do.
Of course playing up might reduce Canada's chances to get a medal but winning medals and being a strong player are two different things. :)
If someone plays up several age groups and win, why shouldn't it be right that he/she competes in that age group at the World Youth ? It is not skipping steps then. It is simply taking the proper steps. If someone wants to become a GM by age 14 ("If you are not a GM by age 14 you might as well forget it. - Anand), baby steps won't do.
Of course playing up might reduce Canada's chances to get a medal but winning medals and being a strong player are two different things. :)
There are very few Anands and those which exist are recognized. I don't think such an exceptional player would be the norm of those wanting to play up. When I was 14 I don't think Canada had any GM's, even though Yanofsky was exceptional.
Yes, I am also thinking of winning medals, as you noticed.
Being a strong player in Canada and translating that to the world scene is often not so easy. It's a 2700 world near the top.
I'm glad you used tennis as an example, Jonathan. I played in local and provincial junior tournaments in the day. I and others were permitted to play in any section for which we were not too old. The sections were divided in a manner comparable to those at the CYCC and the WYCC. To refuse to allow someone to play in a section for which they are young enough to play in is discriminatory in my mind and indefensible.
I'm glad you used tennis as an example, Jonathan. I played in local and provincial junior tournaments in the day. I and others were permitted to play in any section for which we were not too old. The sections were divided in a manner comparable to those at the CYCC and the WYCC. To refuse to allow someone to play in a section for which they are young enough to play in is discriminatory in my mind and indefensible.
This is kind of an odd discussion because I'm generally against accelerated pairings which tends to keep lower rated players away the higher rated players. I'm also not a fan of events which have sections based on player ratings.
Of course, this discussion is specific to something Bob Armstrong posted and not general.
Is "discriminatory in my mind and indefensible" something which is actionable or an opinion? As far as I know, for curling there is an minimum age for men and women. Would you describe that the same way?
A question to all those saying that UXX means a group for only XX and XX-1 years:
Is a Junior championship (known as U20 too) only for 20 and 19 years old players?
Egis, Ken. Everybody knew that often, labels of sporting events accurately describe the contest. I gave many well-respected examples where they do not. Don't keep telling me that "this cigar is a cigar". We already knew that. Sometimes, in life, a cigar is not a cigar.
If you want to argue by analogy about Junior versus CYCC age groups, I say the analogy is not exact. With the Junior, you have one event. With the CYCC you have twelve events, in the same place, at the same time, for the same entry fee. Precedent is to treat Juniors under 18 fairly in respect to the Canadian Junior Championship, and precedent also (up to 2007, anyway) fairly (but differently!) treated all eligible players in the CYCC. Over 300 players, close the the same number of parents, and nobody questioned it! Next, I wonder who will be insisting that a 9-year-old girl be allowed to compete in the U10, U12, U14, U16, U18, G10, G12, G14, G16, G18, all at the same time. "It was quite the week, Mildred, but it was glooooooorious. You should have seen how annoyed those boys, and the bigger boys, and the little men in charge were, as Antoinette glided from board to board. I've never spent a more satisfying $1,500."
2.1 The championship will be played in 12 categories(including Girls categories) :
Age group under 08 : Birth year 2003 and later
Age group under 10 : Birth year 2001 and later
Age group under 12 : Birth year 1999 and later
Age group under 14 : Birth year 1997 and later
Age group under 16 : Birth year 1995 and later
Age group under 18 : Birth year 1993 and later
No limitations from a younger side.
Next, I wonder who will be insisting that a 9-year-old girl be allowed to compete in the U10, U12, U14, U16, U18, G10, G12, G14, G16, G18,
I think this prohibited by Rating rules after Ivanov's (?) participation in CO and CC at the time.
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