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You are right - I was deliberately using your word " rioting " for effect. It would definitely be a " demonstration ", by likely a movement, and hopefully supported by the majority of the population.
I would hope you are correct about society's ability to help the bottom 10% ( including those on various types of social assistance, and the working poor [ part-time work only ]under the poverty line ). However, this has been a goal, somewhat , of Canadian governments at all levels for some time. It seems to have proved a somewhat intractable problem. So far, it seems the saying , " the poor will always be with us ", has proven true.
But I do think society has not tried hard enough, and that there are policies that could be brought in, some as suggested by you, which could improve the situation.
Federally, I hold out more hope for improvement with the NDP, than the Conservatives. But the provinces have a greater impact on this issue, I think, and we do have to get the various stripes of provincial governments to do more.
You are right - I was deliberately using your word " rioting " for effect. It would definitely be a " demonstration ", by likely a movement, and hopefully supported by the majority of the population.
I would hope you are correct about society's ability to help the bottom 10% ( including those on various types of social assistance, and the working poor [ part-time work only ]under the poverty line ). However, this has been a goal, somewhat , of Canadian governments at all levels for some time. It seems to have proved a somewhat intractable problem. So far, it seems the saying , " the poor will always be with us ", has proven true.
But I do think society has not tried hard enough, and that there are policies that could be brought in, some as suggested by you, which could improve the situation.
Federally, I hold out more hope for improvement with the NDP, than the Conservatives. But the provinces have a greater impact on this issue, I think, and we do have to get the various stripes of provincial governments to do more.
Bob
The government has done less for a shorter time than you may think. Talking to older caseworkers, some now retired, in the 70's things were much more punative. Caseworkers literally checked the closets and homes of single mothers and if they even found a man's pair of shoes there you were cut off. No exageration there at all. Social assistance was grudgingly started during the Great Depression. You are right that it is a provincial matter.
Real employment programs did not start until the end of the 90's, at least in Hamilton. The emphasis in Toronto seemed to be on getting people to leave Toronto. Free ticket to anywhere you wanted to go. This was a bit of a mess until the province at least put in a province wide computer system about 10 years ago. Although I still lost track of how many times I had to call another province.
Even during the 80's & 90's the number of employment programs that an OW, or GWA caseworker as it was called then, could refer someone to was limited. I think there was something called Youth Track. There are some training funds that are used in some limited cases in Hamilton specifically to help foreign trained professional requalify. There are also some funds to train people who have been on EIB at some point. Things like truck drivers and PSW were popular. You can never have enough of those I guess. Nothing like a serious, good money trade or good college program in high demand fields like insurance claims and graphic arts. The funding targeted 6 month programs so the private vocational for lots of profit schools had a field day. If you want to read a real debacle google or check on Toronto Star all the phoney baloney training programs WSIB had clients go through with private contractors. That's who I think should get free tuition, members of the 10% that want to do up to a 2 or 3 year program at a real college to get themselves back into the workforce. Good for them, good for the taxpayer long term and good for the colleges.
Anyway I'm talking about a complete revamping of apprenticeship, not puttering around the edges. Every good electrician, plumber, contractor etc that I know has more business than they can handle. Now if you can't learn a trade due to lack of manual skill and you can't or won't learn useful inside work skills then I'm afraid there is not much hope for you. And for those who suggest that I'm picking on those with mental health issues, mental health issues are the quickest ODSP cases granted. They literally fly over to ODSP. If the documentation is there which normally it is especially if the person has had a stay at a facility. And for those saying that I am asking people to do something I wouldn't, all I can say is I've done my share of these kinds of jobs. I didn't get a reasonable job until I was hired at 25 to work as a civilian custody/front desk officer at the Hamilton Police. Even then it was often night shifts, and I've done my share of night shifts. Word to the wise: don't breathe too deeply at the custody cells at 3am on a night shift.
By the by, one thing that makes me wonder about the OWS movement is that they ignore all the poverty mill exploiters out there. I guess they are not powerful enough or sexy enough for the OWS crowd. I'm talking about the Money Marts and their check cashing fees and payday loans, furniture home rent to own places that charge enormous amounts, private for profit vocational schools that take peoples money and to me seem to have very poor programs and results and pawn brokers. If you want to know who the real exploiters are just ask anyone who has professionally been involved with that sector of society. It is not the banks taking $3.95 a month for service charges. We used to have a letter we could give to OW clients to cash their cheque (with various security measurers in place) at the bank we used to issue OW cheques. Much relieved they were not to fork over to a check cashing service.
That's why I doubt that there are any significant amount of the 10% involved in the OWS movement or consider that they are being ignored by those that are that are not part of the 10%. Believe you me if this was being run by the 10% demonstrating as you say, Money Mart would not be below the radar. Nor would public housing be off the hook either. However, none of those issues are as important it seems as the ideological message OWS wants to deliver.
That's why I think this is not about the bottom 10%, I think it's about the middle class raging against perceived slights because someone has more wealth then they do. I've seen this happen at union meetings and it is not pretty. For example, we had a union member at our local yelling that it was not fair that in the new collective agreements that junior staff got 3 weeks of vacation about a year earlier than before. Because he had not had this when he was a junior. He was not placated by the fact that there was now 8 weeks of vacation instead of 7 as the max for senior members. That's right 8 weeks, ie two months ie almost as much as a school teacher. With that amount of vacation many don't care to retire. They have enough vacation time and seniorty to be off whenever they want. An awful lot of times a union is just a way for seniors to lord it over juniors. Even the employer plays along with this. At one point they got trucks with only the driver's seat being a suspension seat, the passanger seat was bone jarring to say the least. This is because they knew the seniors always drove.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Tuesday, 8th May, 2012, 12:47 PM.
Yes there will always be a bottom 10%. However that does not mean their standard of living cannot be raised from what it is today.
For example our bottom 10% live a lot better than the bottom 10% in many developing countries. Not to say that we shouldn't try to raise everyone's standard.
Bob, the election is some 3 years from now. Polls were predicting a Wildrose win in Alberta on the eve of the election. They predicted the PC's would win in Ontario.
When the pollsters call me I normally tell them I'm not interested and hang up. Maybe they consider me undecided.
Anyhow, three years from now many who support the protests will have long ago got tired of that position and will be part of the establishment. Captains of Capitalism. :)
Risky - polls can be right; polls can be wrong - which is it here? - I don't know - I think you'd be wise nevertheless, to hedge your bets, and start squirreling away those coppers.
Risky - polls can be right; polls can be wrong - which is it here? - I don't know - I think you'd be wise nevertheless, to hedge your bets, and start squirreling away those coppers.
Bob
Oh, man $20 in pennies is $20 but looking forward to 3 years of more high level trash talk between the Bob and the Gary - priceless!!!! :)
Oh, man $20 in pennies is $20 but looking forward to 3 years of more high level trash talk between the Bob and the Gary - priceless!!!! :)
They aren't making pennies anymore. I think the last one was stamped last week and put away in the vault for posterity. Probably most of the pennies will eventually be melted down for the copper.
They aren't making pennies anymore. I think the last one was stamped last week and put away in the vault for posterity. Probably most of the pennies will eventually be melted down for the copper.
I had no idea he intends to pay in pennies.
No he's wanting you to pay in pennies. I think this is the usual tactic of the NDP that if you can't be effective at least be irritating. Like their wanting to break the current budget debate into manageable chunks or keep throwing procedural delays on it. I mean if the NDP can't keep up with the whole budget, that's hardly anyone else's problem.
I was thinking about collecting and not paying. I don't see where they will get enough ridings to win the election. Maybe they think they'll win Alberta.
No he's wanting you to pay in pennies. I think this is the usual tactic of the NDP that if you can't be effective at least be irritating. Like their wanting to break the current budget debate into manageable chunks or keep throwing procedural delays on it. I mean if the NDP can't keep up with the whole budget, that's hardly anyone else's problem.
It is more an 'omnibus bill' than a budget - that is their complaint. Using immense and complex bills to obfuscate unpopular changes is a tactic borrowed from the U.S. where the practice is quite the norm.
Of course, a majority government has been given carte blanche by the public (one idiot, one vote), so I suppose it should come as no surprise that the government continues doing whatever it wants to do - with only occasional stops for whining dogs nipping at their feet.
If we had Proportional representation then it would be one idiot, one vote. Instead we have a worst past the post system that provides us with phony majorities in the House of Commons for parties who are only supported by a minority of the electorate.
If we had Proportional representation then it would be one idiot, one vote. Instead we have a worst past the post system that provides us with phony majorities in the House of Commons for parties who are only supported by a minority of the electorate.
Yes, that is true. I really do dislike the 'past the post' system we have, but certain groups have a vested interest in maintaining that system, wink, wink.
I have a real problem with voting being an 'unalienable right' - we force people to have vehicle driving tests, why not a voting test? Demonstrating the ability to read would be a start...
You have to learn to work within the system. I'm working it to win a small wager from Bob.
Whatever happened to the Olympiad bid where I couldn't find anyone who had enough confidence in it to make even a $20.00 wager with me. I finally had to withdraw the offer. I don't hear any mention of it these days.
I do like the revisions to the rating system, in a humorous sort of way. It kind of points out voting is over rated.
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