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New attendance record for CYCC (non Ontario edition)
Maybe my original post came out bad but I do mean most of what I say. I'll try to clarify a bit. Some impressions come from personal experience from feedback that friends gave me when I tried to get them into chess over the years. Although, I did grow up with typical redneck Alberta kids :) The main point of my post was that it seems to be there is a demography shift of not just more immigrant players(which is fine), but less and less Canadian players. In Calgary this is evident where our youth numbers have dwindled by probably ten-fold and our only youth players are of predominantly Asian descent whose parent's got them involved. If I was born ten years later and I would never have found chess with the way the scholastic scene is now. Chess can't grow in Canada based off of immigrants, it can pretty much only be maintained. There is a lot of work that needs to be done to reach out to Canadian kids without a chess background. Otherwise, we are missing out on the majority of the population. BTW I'm living in Dallas right now and the youth scene in Texas is gigantic.
Last edited by Eric Hansen; Wednesday, 4th July, 2012, 11:14 PM.
Same here, I dont see the fun for a young kid to compete the way they get pushed nowadays. I am glad I experimented chess in a different way south of Montreal. Historically chess was for poor people. Russians government encourage one century ago his people to play chess hoping they learn to read as well. Now we reach the opposite extreme.
A so call Canadian Junior Ch. luring as many intermediate level players to participate. The important is not the quality but the quantity. It is just a business operation. Without immigrants, this tournament would have die of natural cause.
Trust the Chesstalkers to find the scorched lining in a good-news story!
Seriously... sure there is always room for improvement, but I fail to see how setting an attendance record of sorts is in any way a bad thing. Build upon the good rather than trying to tear it down!
If the CYCC is in Ottawa next year perhaps some players from Quebec will decide to attend!
P.S. Jean it's one event with 12 sections, not 12 distinct events.
Attendance record... for B. C. I never said it was a "bad thing". I said I found it unimpressive, whether for 12 events or 12 sections. Many scholastic events across Canada attracts more players. National "championships" should distinguish themselves by quality, not quantity. You cannot have both at the same time.
Maybe my original post came out bad but I do mean most of what I say. I'll try to clarify a bit. Some impressions come from personal experience from feedback that friends gave me when I tried to get them into chess over the years. Although, I did grow up with typical redneck Alberta kids :) The main point of my post was that it seems to be there is a demography shift of not just more immigrant players(which is fine), but less and less Canadian players. In Calgary this is evident where our youth numbers have dwindled by probably ten-fold and our only youth players are of predominantly Asian descent whose parent's got them involved. If I was born ten years later and I would never have found chess with the way the scholastic scene is now. Chess can't grow in Canada based off of immigrants, it can pretty much only be maintained. There is a lot of work that needs to be done to reach out to Canadian kids without a chess background. Otherwise, we are missing out on the majority of the population. BTW I'm living in Dallas right now and the youth scene in Texas is gigantic.
Just as an idea, I'd propose Canadian universities to give out chess scholarships. It's done for about every other sport anyways and a few thousand bucks here and there is usually nothing to a respectable university.
Re: New attendance record for CYCC (non Ontario edition)
Lots of Humble people made great effort to make this a great event.
I even made some "Autograph graphics at the last minute" to help out. I think this group should be commended for putting up such a great event.
Why not say something nice! :D
Thank them for a great job. Congratulate them for achieving record high attendance, obviously they are doing something right. Lots of kids are enjoying this event because of dedicated volunteers!
Why not encourage some of your Quebec students to participate in the CYCC?
Last edited by Bob Gillanders; Thursday, 5th July, 2012, 07:10 AM.
Maybe my original post came out bad but I do mean most of what I say. I'll try to clarify a bit. Some impressions come from personal experience from feedback that friends gave me when I tried to get them into chess over the years. Although, I did grow up with typical redneck Alberta kids :) The main point of my post was that it seems to be there is a demography shift of not just more immigrant players(which is fine), but less and less Canadian players. In Calgary this is evident where our youth numbers have dwindled by probably ten-fold and our only youth players are of predominantly Asian descent whose parent's got them involved. If I was born ten years later and I would never have found chess with the way the scholastic scene is now. Chess can't grow in Canada based off of immigrants, it can pretty much only be maintained. There is a lot of work that needs to be done to reach out to Canadian kids without a chess background. Otherwise, we are missing out on the majority of the population. BTW I'm living in Dallas right now and the youth scene in Texas is gigantic.
Is chess not for everybody? By Peter Zhdanov
Eloquence and smartness don’t pay off as long as the audience has problems understanding the message you are trying to convey, or if people dislike your style. Don’t talk like a professor when addressing truck drivers. Don’t swear like a sailor when speaking to kids. If someone doesn’t get you, it’s your problem, not theirs. Of course, one can adopt a different approach: “I am good as I am, and if someone is too dumb to appreciate what I am saying and doing, then who cares”. The drawback of this mentality is that no one would be willing to understand and support such a person. No one. Not even sponsors, government officials or us, chess fans.
Eloquence and smartness don’t pay off as long as the audience has problems understanding the message you are trying to convey, or if people dislike your style. Don’t talk like a professor when addressing truck drivers. Don’t swear like a sailor when speaking to kids. If someone doesn’t get you, it’s your problem, not theirs. Of course, one can adopt a different approach: “I am good as I am, and if someone is too dumb to appreciate what I am saying and doing, then who cares”. The drawback of this mentality is that no one would be willing to understand and support such a person. No one. Not even sponsors, government officials or us, chess fans.
Attendance record... for B. C. I never said it was a "bad thing". I said I found it unimpressive, whether for 12 events or 12 sections. Many scholastic events across Canada attracts more players. National "championships" should distinguish themselves by quality, not quantity. You cannot have both at the same time.
Stop whining when you failed to reach your goals without the full support of CFC. Obviously, perhaps the way you discourage parents from allowing their kids to participate in chess events reflects your frustrations.
If you speak about quality, where do you get the financial assistance? This event is run by volunteers not like you who demands compensation for ever second of your time. You ask people to look for sponsors to your quality event and would like you to be treated like a King? You have passed your time and until now, you are still an aging IM. Sorry for you Jean, but you have to risk your money somehow, not others to finance your endeavor to reach your goal of becoming a GM. Don't blame the CFC for not fully supporting you. Parents pay to reach the interest of their kids and join them to see the world by travelling. That's one reason. There is a price for everything, if you are serious and willing to attain your goals, you have to risk everything you got if you believe in yourself! How can you afford it, is your problem! If I am a businessman and you come to me to get financial assistance, what can I get back in return and if you failed I would like to get security of what I spent towards you. I want my money back with interest of course. Taking great risks mean commitment and great responsibility, if you need to become powerful someday!!!
Thank them for a great job. Congratulate them for achieving record high attendance, obviously they are doing something right. Lots of kids are enjoying this event because of dedicated volunteers!
Why not encourage some of your Quebec students to participate in the CYCC?
I have no doubt that the volunteers involved in the CYCC do a great job within their mandate. The problem is the CYCC formula as set up by the CFC : an "open" national championship where whatever quality there might be is heavily diluted by quantity. A little wine mixed with barrels of tap water.
I rarely discourage people to play anywhere if they can, but if my opinion is asked, I point out those events where they are not getting their (parents) money's worth. For a young player, the CYCC is at the top of that list, especially if held far away from home.
Last edited by Jean Hébert; Thursday, 5th July, 2012, 10:32 AM.
Eloquence and smartness don’t pay off as long as the audience has problems understanding the message you are trying to convey, or if people dislike your style. Don’t talk like a professor when addressing truck drivers. Don’t swear like a sailor when speaking to kids. If someone doesn’t get you, it’s your problem, not theirs. Of course, one can adopt a different approach: “I am good as I am, and if someone is too dumb to appreciate what I am saying and doing, then who cares”. The drawback of this mentality is that no one would be willing to understand and support such a person. No one. Not even sponsors, government officials or us, chess fans.
May I be explained what bothers you that much in Hansen's post, to the point that no eyes should apparently be exposed to it ? Probably "white kids" is not exactly the most politically correct choice of words, but the real point, I think, is that whatever "success" Canada has in its youth program, it stands almost entirely on immigration rather than useful chess policies.
Hmm. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive and should re-examine my comments. Let's try looking at Hansen's comments from a different perspective; how about from the hypothetical perspective of a white, English Montrealer:
I agree. Gotta get the white kids playing if you want chess to be popular in [Quebec]. Chess is currently not 'cool' and also easily discouraging when you're competing in a super-competitive environment with all [French] whom have lots of pressure from their parents to do well. I would have never gotten into chess in at atmosphere like that. I hope for one day our Olympiad team to have more homegrown players predominantly without a chess background. That would be a nice indicator of some growth in popularity.
Nope. Still doesn't sound good in my opinion.
How about from the hypothetical perspective of a white person living in Toronto?
I agree. Gotta get the white kids playing if you want chess to be popular in [Toronto]. Chess is currently not 'cool' and also easily discouraging when you're competing in a super-competitive environment with all [Chinese, Indian, Jamaican, Pakistani, etc.] whom have lots of pressure from their parents to do well. I would have never gotten into chess in at atmosphere like that. I hope for one day our Olympiad team to have more homegrown players predominantly without a chess background. That would be a nice indicator of some growth in popularity.
Nope. I still don't like it. Sounds prejudiced to me. We're all immigrants in this country, or descended from immigrants, aren't we? One group of immigrants is not intrinsically better, or any less deserving of what this country has to offer, than another, in my opinion. That's why I object to Hansen's note.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Peter, you don't have to like it and may find it as offensive you like, but I still find it something that should be discussed. Just because you don't like talking about certain issues doesn't mean they should all disappear. It stands out pretty clearly to me, and is heavily discussed across the border in the US about 'homegrown players'.
Canadian chess is really lacking with its youth program. USA, S.Africa, Europe, have programs far more developed than us. Whether you consider us all immigrants or not, it doesn't matter. Canada doesn't really have a chess culture nor is it the Fischer Era. A lot of work needs to be done to reach the average Canadian kid. I used the term 'white kids' to kind of portray an average Anglo-Saxon Canadian because they very likely have no chess background at all and still constitute the majority of Canada's population while becoming more rare in youth events. Our numbers seem heavily immigrant driven.. Looking purely at the number of participants and not any deeper would be naive. And I would say that I have a pretty decent perspective about this from both sides.
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