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I have started a new thread, since this was off-topic to the other thread in which it was discussed.
Harmony Zhu will play in the U08 girls section in the WYCC, without having qualified via the CYCC.
Bob wrote:
The regulation is that if a junior is in the top three of their age group, they can be allowed onto the team if there is an exceptional reason why the junior did not play in the CYCC.
If there was such decision by the executive, it has not been publicized to my knowledge.
Bob A
The CFC shows only three U08 girls on the rating list, although there were five in that category in the CYCC. The others do not show up on any CFC age-group list - even if they had turned 9 in the meantime. Does the CFC not put in birth dates for all juniors?
If there are only three in an age group, why bother having a CYCC category for that age group at all?
We should be made aware of such "exceptional reasons", and hope that this doesn't start a flood of them in the future. Is the cost of going to an event an "exceptional reason"?
If there is to be public disclosure of any application by Ms. Zhu's parents for Harmony to be included in this year's Canadian WYCC team, and any decision, I would think this should be handled by the CFC Junior Coordinator, Patrick McDonald, or the CFC President on behalf of the executive, Michael von Keitz.
There is no list of " exceptional cirumstances ". Applications are handled on a case by case basis.
Given Harmony is more than 500 points higher rated than any other girl her age in this country, it would be a complete travesty if she wasn't on this year's WYCC team.
Last edited by Jack Maguire; Sunday, 4th November, 2012, 08:04 PM.
The same argument was made re Jiaxin Liu's application to be on the team through exceptional circumstances. If she was good, she should be allowed - not what the regulation said though.
The key issue in my mind is that there is in the Handbook a regulation covering the situation. The reason for the rule is that we do not want an executive playing cowboy all over the place and doing whatever comes into their heads. The rule seems reasonable, and should be followed it would seem to me. CFC has often been criticized roundly ( many times deserved ) for failing to abide by their own rules. It is best that they make due diligence to follow them when they cover a situation.
It is not enough to just be top. She must show why she did not play in the CYCC ( at least establish an exception to the satisfaction of the executive - the necessity of public disclosure of the application/decision is a different issue ).
Bob, CFC Public Relations Coordinator
Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Sunday, 4th November, 2012, 04:39 PM.
Is the cost of going to an event an "exceptional reason"?
For me it is certainly not an "exceptional" reason but it is undoubtedly a "valid" reason.
That said I on the other hand see absolutely no valid chess reason to send most of these kids to foreign events, world championship or otherwise. Their chess development is simply not advanced enough to warrant that. Instead of motivating them with longer term goals, we just hand them "fun trips" that comes way too soon in their chess "careers" and often turn out to prematurely smother their thirst for the game.
Is the cost of going to an event an "exceptional reason"?[/QUOTE]
I strongly suspect that it's not, but imho, it apodictically should. Anyone who resided in the east this year had to fork out a couple of thousand dollars if they wanted their child to play in the CYCC. And that is precisely why this year's WYCC team could have been so much stronger.
According to the Handbook, she and her family will be responsible for all her expenses, plus a $300 fee.
"(e) 3 top CFC rated players in each category (by January 1st of the current year) if not able to participate at CYCC due to extraordinary circumstances, and wishing to participate at WYCC, are eligible to submit to CFC their applications for participation at WYCC before the start of CYCC. CFC Executive has the right to reject the application at their discretion if applicant's circumstances are not valid and/or exceptional. All players whose applications are approved will be eligible to participate at WYCC using their own funds plus paying extra fee of $300 to CFC Youth Program fund."
The key issue in my mind is that there is in the Handbook a regulation covering the situation. The reason for the rule is that we do not want an executive playing cowboy all over the place and doing whatever comes into their heads. The rule seems reasonable, and should be followed it would seem to me. CFC has often been criticized roundly ( many times deserved ) for failing to abide by their own rules. It is best that they make due diligence to follow them when they cover a situation.
Bob, CFC Public Relations Coordinator
Would you care to cite the rule/regulation, Bob? Harmony is by no means the only member of the current WYCC team who did not participate in this year's CYCC.
Their chess development is simply not advanced enough to warrant that. Instead of motivating them with longer term goals, we just hand them "fun trips" that comes way too soon in their chess "careers" and often turn out to prematurely smother their thirst for the game.
Most people don't understand this and have no desire to plan long term, so you are wasting your time writing it. That you're right is beside the point, I suppose. :)
CFC Handbook ( found on CFC Website - under " CFC Info " )
Section 10 - Canadian Youth and Junior Chess Championships
1012.Participation in the World Events:
[Motion 2011-B moved by Vladimir Birarov, seconded by Valer Demian
INVITED PLAYERS
.......
ADDITIONAL PLAYERS
(e) 3 top CFC rated players in each category (by January 1st of the current year) if not able to participate at CYCC due to extraordinary circumstances, and wishing to participate at WYCC, are eligible to submit to CFC their applications for participation at WYCC before the start of CYCC. CFC Executive has the right to reject the application at their discretion if applicant's circumstances are not valid and/or exceptional. All players whose applications are approved will be eligible to participate at WYCC using their own funds plus paying extra fee of $300 to CFC Youth Program fund.
For me it is certainly not an "exceptional" reason but it is undoubtedly a "valid" reason.
.
I note that the rule subsequently cited says "valid and/or exceptional". I'm not a lawyer (albeit I have both a daughter and a son who are) but I would think the "valid" aspect is far, far easier to plead.
The same argument was made re Jiaxin Liu's application to be on the team through exceptional circumstances. If she was good, she should be allowed - not what the regulation said though.
Bob, CFC Public Relations Coordinator
I can surmise then that Dora's application was rejected while those of the likes of Razvan Preotu were accepted.
Do the CFC regulations in any way define their "exceptional circumstances"?
My reference to Ms Liu was re her application to be on the 2011 team, not 2012 ( sorry if that was unclear ). It is a rather well-known case involving " exceptional cirucumstances ", where her application was rejected.
The regulation does not list what might be " exceptional circumstances ". It is on a case by case basis.
I am not that familiar with this year's team, and so don't really have any info on any team members' qualifications, and I am not on the executive.
The mean-spirited comments on this thread are an embarrassment to Canadian chess. Harmony plays a very good game and will be a wonderful embassador for Canada on the world stage.
Just look at her performance of a piano concerto when she was only six!
enjoy!>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDQHVislzzg
CFC Handbook ( found on CFC Website - under " CFC Info " )
Section 10 - Canadian Youth and Junior Chess Championships
1012.Participation in the World Events:
[Motion 2011-B moved by Vladimir Birarov, seconded by Valer Demian
INVITED PLAYERS
.......
ADDITIONAL PLAYERS
(e) 3 top CFC rated players in each category (by January 1st of the current year) if not able to participate at CYCC due to extraordinary circumstances, and wishing to participate at WYCC, are eligible to submit to CFC their applications for participation at WYCC before the start of CYCC. CFC Executive has the right to reject the application at their discretion if applicant's circumstances are not valid and/or exceptional. All players whose applications are approved will be eligible to participate at WYCC using their own funds plus paying extra fee of $300 to CFC Youth Program fund.
Bob, CFC Public Relations Coordinator
The rule seems aimed at using CFC's might as gatekeepers of Canadian participation in WYCC to incent participation in the CYCC. I think the goal of building up the CYCC into a real Canadian Championship is laudable, and the means used here are not entirely heavy handed: it does make some sense to have to qualify at the CYCC to earn a spot at the WYCC.
As for the extraordinary circumstances referred to, the rules that WYCC hopefuls should ordinarily participate in the CYCC seem aimed, at least, at having players not choose not to attend CYCC, except under unusual circumstances. If they are, for practical purposes, unable to attend, that should (in my mind) obviate the question of the extraordinariness of the reasons. Until there are travel funds available, I don't think we can necessarily require attendance at CYCC when it is held at too great a distance.
In 2011, as I understood it, CFC was lobbying the organizers of the Pan-Am Chess Championship not to hold it at a time that conflicted with CYCC. When Pan-Am went ahead despite CFC objections, CFC wanted to boycott the event. What they did in terms of boycotting was relatively tame: they simply informed would-be Pan-Am participants that their attendance at Pan-Am was their choice - but it would not be considered a valid reason for missing CYCC, and thus qualification to the 2011 WYCC would be barred to any Canadian Pan-Am participants. That may or may not have been a good decision on the part of CFC, but once announced, it affects everyone's decisions, so it would be sloppy and unfair to back down later.
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