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The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
Zeljko, you are probably one of the dumbest people here on chesstalk on the same level as other fellows like Andy Shaw. Have you read some of the crap you post on this topic?
Exhibit #1
WYCC age criteria = U18
Your criteria = U25
Therefore, you CANNOT use the same age group when making your point. Part time jobs at Starbucks or wherever and babysitting jobs are awesome for kids in highschool but I don't think anyone would hire a 30 year old to babysit their kids.
Exhibit #2
I'm sure you were taught this in primary school but I see a refresher course might be in order... You see, when kids grow older, they become adults. When girls grow older, they become women. When women become older, they become older women. Women CANNOT become men just by growing older. In a non-physical intellectual activity, there is no reason why women will do worse than men. However, kids will often perform worse than adults because of their inexperience and the fact that their brains are not as fully developed. That is why there are IQ tests for age groups and no differentiation among men or women.
Women are just as talented as men, they just aren't being pushed and challenged enough. Look at Yuanling. I'm sure she could have become an FM or IM if she put more work into it. However, she got into a good university instead, so that's probably better than getting a cool chess title.
As Jean Hebert would say it - you are diseased Bindi. However, you getting biologically older does not seem to have ever cured you.
No one would hire a 30 year old to babysit? Have you never heard of private home daycare? You might have been left alone too often as a kid but not everyone is.
Have you been to a coffee shop? Have you seen the wide age range of people working there in part time jobs?
Really you hold to the age limits chess ability theory even though Bobby Fischer disproved this long ago as did Magnus Carlsen?
The government criteria for youth programs is 25. It is not my criteria. I would think that a difficult to place unemployed youth like yourself would be aware of that. How is the job hunt going by the way?
Anyone can get better if they put more work into it. Your statement is pointless.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Wednesday, 7 November, 2012, 10:02 PM.
Re: Re : Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
Zeljko, you are probably one of the dumbest people here on chesstalk on the same level as other fellows like Andy Shaw. Have you read some of the crap you post on this topic?
Juniors do compete in the job market. If we take junior to mean the WYCC age criteria then plenty of them compete for part time jobs, babysitting jobs, and jobs after graduating from high school or after dropping out of high school. The government has special programs to try to help youth employment, which they categorize as anyone under 25.
WYCC age criteria = U18
Your criteria = U25
Therefore, you CANNOT use the same age group when making your point. Part time jobs at Starbucks or wherever and babysitting jobs are awesome for kids in highschool but I don't think anyone would hire a 30 year old to babysit their kids.
The youth vs older part leads me to interpret it as meaning no junior events. Once you are opposed to and want to do away with all gender segregated events then I don't see how you justify not doing away with age segregation as well. Why is age deserving of special events while gender is not?
I'm sure you were taught this in primary school but I see a refresher course might be in order... You see, when kids grow older, they become adults. When girls grow older, they become women. When women become older, they become older women. Women CANNOT become men just by growing older. In a non-physical intellectual activity, there is no reason why women will do worse than men. However, kids will often perform worse than adults because of their inexperience and the fact that their brains are not as fully developed. That is why there are IQ tests for age groups and no differentiation among men or women.
Perhaps women have the right to the same lack of talent as you do.
Women are just as talented as men, they just aren't being pushed and challenged enough. Look at Yuanling. I'm sure she could have become an FM or IM if she put more work into it. However, she got into a good university instead, so that's probably better than getting a cool chess title.
Re: Re : Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
The women should defeat me and win the open prize; and yes, I will do the best I can to win a class prize, among my rating peers. And that is the point - the prizes are by rating; should not be by gender - no need for separate women's prizes - it is detrimental to the development of women's chess.
Could Canada lead the way in reforming Women's Chess in the world?? Could Canada eliminate the women's chess system in Canada, and boycott all FIDE separate women/girls tournaments?
Is Canada such a strong chess country that it should try to reform anything anywhere? In bridge too, there are men olympiads and women olympiads, tournaments for men only and tournaments for women only (as well as double team events: man + woman against man + woman, like in tennis), and nobody complains. It is not a question of intelligence being different in men and women, but simply the mere fact that many women prefer to practice their favorite pastime (bridge or chess) with other women rather than with men. At least, this social pattern is well documented in bridge, where women are much more numerous than men in clubs, but almost absent from international competitions.
Maybe elimination of the separate, parallel junior system is yours?? But you'll have to go some to convince me on that one. Especially when we get rid of the separate, parallel junior girls system, and just have the one open junior system ( a vast improvement ).
Bob A
That's odd you are the one that convinced me with your preamble.
I don't ask for prizes for my lack of talent. Should the women who lack talent?
Bob A
There are prizes in every class section you enter. Are you saying you would turn them down if you won? Whether that is a cash prize or a trophy. I hope this is not about you begrudging women being able to compete for separate prizes in a tournament you can't enter because of your gender. After all these prizes are all funded by entry fees and whatever sponsorship an event can attract.
Re: Re : Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
Hi Gerry:
I have my issue.
Maybe elimination of the separate, parallel junior system is yours?? But you'll have to go some to convince me on that one. Especially when we get rid of the separate, parallel junior girls system, and just have the one open junior system ( a vast improvement ).
True I have not risen in rating - has nothing to do with the class system - pure lack of talent.
Women reinforce the slowness of their development by playing in a separate, parallel women's system, where they have potential to improve in the open system ( where I it seems do not - not that I don't try, mind you ).
Bob A
Perhaps women have the right to the same lack of talent as you do.
Re: Re : Re: The Women’s Chess System – Finally Time to Abolish It?
Hi Roger:
True I have not risen in rating - has nothing to do with the class system - pure lack of talent.
Women reinforce the slowness of their development by playing in a separate, parallel women's system, where they have potential to improve in the open system ( where I it seems do not - not that I don't try, mind you ).
It's a particular philosophy for a chess teacher....
How about trying the youth is potential, youth is possible new talent philosophy instead? Do you tell your students that they are diseased? How do they react.
No problem with separate junior events - successive goals to strive for give motivation, and then they leave the junior system for good, into the " open, inclusive system " ( though not necessarily for the girl juniors, who can choose to play in the separate, parallel women's system ).
With the gender difference system, the argument is totally different. The women don't graduate - they just stay forever. They need to play in an open competitive system, where they play the best opposition possible: adult male; adult female; junior boy; junior girl. This will get women improving in chess, something the failed 1/2 century separate women's system has not done.
Bob A
I can't agree with you that they don't graduate. That would mean that none of these women ever enter open mixed gender events and that is just not the case. I would suggest that juniors also 'graduate' to adult events but at a lower per centage rate than womens events. How many of the juniors from 10 or 15 years ago are now playing in adult events? How many of them are master rated players? Given the hundreds of juniors participating and the dearth of CFC members I would suggest the juniors are not graduating either according to your definition.
Given your chess is for everyone to play everyone on an equal footing preamble including youth-older, richer-poorer I am surprised that you support separation of events by age but not by gender. What happened to your notion that we are all to face all at the chess board with no exceptions?
No problem with separate junior events - successive goals to strive for give motivation, and then they leave the junior system for good, into the " open, inclusive system " ( though not necessarily for the girl juniors, who can choose to play in the separate, parallel women's system ).
With the gender difference system, the argument is totally different. The women don't graduate - they just stay forever. They need to play in an open competitive system, where they play the best opposition possible: adult male; adult female; junior boy; junior girl. This will get women improving in chess, something the failed 1/2 century separate women's system has not done.
Bob A
you play many, many games in the U2000 / U1800 sections of tournaments. You have not graduated and clearly, sections in tournaments are failing you. We all know many people who play in those sections but never "graduate".
When are you going to call for the elimination of all class sections?
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