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GM Antoaneta Stefanova ( Bulgaria – 2491 ) - GM Dronavalli Harika ( India - 2512 )
IM/WGM Anna Ushenina ( Ukraine – 2452 ) - WGM Ju Wenjun ( China – 2501 )
It seems, that with the top four seeds having been knocked out in this women's lottery system, interest in the championship has diminished significantly. Only 2 GM's left in the race.
GM Antoaneta Stefanova ( Bulgaria – 2491 ) - GM Dronavalli Harika ( India - 2512 )
IM/WGM Anna Ushenina ( Ukraine – 2452 ) - WGM Ju Wenjun ( China – 2501 )
It seems, that with the top four seeds having been knocked out in this women's lottery system, interest in the championship has diminished significantly. Only 2 GM's left in the race.
I think a new system needs to be proposed.
Bob A
I'm wondering how you justify your interest in this all female event given your stated opinions on Canadian all female events.
I highly doubt interest in the event has changed because some top seeds have lost. The semi-finalists are well known players; in fact, Dronavalli was a participant at the girl's WYCC when we were there. So I guess making GM and contending for the women's championship indicates those early childhood decisions to play in girl's WYCC events can lead to success.
I suppose if she were Canadian a lot of arguments would be nonstarters here.
I'm not sure why being young and Canadian indicates some exceptional opportunities in chess. Quite the contrary.
I'm wondering how you justify your interest in this all female event given your stated opinions on Canadian all female events.
Believe it or not, I am very interested in the promotion of women/girls chess. It is my concern that the current separate female system is a hindrance, that led me to take the pulse on that issue recently.
But I can listen - the majority want the separate system. So be it.
So I do my best to promote women's/girls chess in both systems.
The current Women's World Championship format is discriminatory and broken. Alternative formats need to be discussed.
But I can listen - the majority want the separate system. So be it.
So I do my best to promote women's/girls chess in both systems.
The current Women's World Championship format is discriminatory and broken. Alternative formats need to be discussed.
Bob A
I'm having some problem with that. You say the majority of women want a separate system. Then you call their WC format discriminatory and broken. I'd like to see the source of that, or a statement if it's your own opinion.
Who needs to discuss alternative formats? Men so they can impose a new format on women? We need clarification.
Games are won and lost on the chess board. The knockout format is good. Win or go home. They don't need players having a bad event hanging around for an 11 round Swiss.
GM Antoaneta Stefanova ( Bulgaria – 2491 ) - GM Dronavalli Harika ( India - 2512 )
IM/WGM Anna Ushenina ( Ukraine – 2452 ) - WGM Ju Wenjun ( China – 2501 )
It seems, that with the top four seeds having been knocked out in this women's lottery system, interest in the championship has diminished significantly. Only 2 GM's left in the race.
I think a new system needs to be proposed.
Bob A
The candidates tournament like Zurich or the old candidates KO system
With World Champion waiting in the finals, players should have to earn the right to play the
Champion finals being 16-24 games draw retains title
What arrant nonsense! The #19 ranked woman in the world, Antoaneta Stefanova (2491), playing the #38 ranked woman in the world, Anna Ushenina (2452), for the so-called title of Woman World Champion. Talk about debasing a title!
What arrant nonsense! The #19 ranked woman in the world, Antoaneta Stefanova (2491), playing the #38 ranked woman in the world, Anna Ushenina (2452), for the so-called title of Woman World Champion. Talk about debasing a title!
Your rant means that you lost a lot on betting, is it right? :p
What I don't understand, is why the women chess players of the world are not protesting their women's world championship format?
What I also don't understand is how the majority of this board, it seems, state that the system is a good one? On what basis??
Bob A
When was the last time you noticed FIDE (specifically IllusionOf) giving a rat's ash about anyone protesting anything? I mean, he is guided by aliens, no? FIDE does whatever the hell he and his cronies want to do.
I am not sure why you think a majority on this board think the system is a good one? The main criticism I recall was that the opinions on Chesstalk are a predominantly-male forum pronouncing on a subject that most have no knowledge about (whether that is true or not, does not imply the current system is anything: good or bad).
Things may change when IllusionOf is disposed of; in the meantime, it is what it is. By all means, protest (and I agree the system is broken badly) but don't have delusions that it will matter at this moment.
When was the last time you noticed FIDE (specifically IllusionOf) giving a rat's ash about anyone protesting anything? ......... By all means, protest (and I agree the system is broken badly) but don't have delusions that it will matter at this moment.
The Cooperative Chess Coalition ( CCC ) would be willing to try to focus protest sentiment on this issue. But it will require two things:
1. some involvement of the women chess players of the world;
2. some alternative format around which there is some consensus, as an alternative.
CCC will be bringing forward its discussion starter on Dec. 7th, as part of its chess reform discussion series on Facebook, on its discussion board, " CCC - Chess Posts of Interest ".
CCC realizes the odds against successful protest, but believes in trying. A small group, with a focussed program, can achieve more sometimes than might be expected.
What I don't understand, is why the women chess players of the world are not protesting their women's world championship format?
What I also don't understand is how the majority of this board, it seems, state that the championship format is a good one? On what basis??
Bob A
Bob,
The participants or those shafted by this cycle are the ones who must protest, if they don't like it.
Whereas to the majority, or I'd even say entirety of this board...
Hold on a second... who are we?
A bunch of idle individuals hoping to discuss whatever comes up while holding NO position to have ANY influence in the matter at hand. Plus, we're men.
From a male, amateur, fan perspective... I don't have a problem with knock-outs, especially womens, since I am less interested in the women's world championship than the open / absolute. Most top women players participated, they got a nice pay-out for being there, and a larger pay-out for finishing higher in the competition, they are after all mostly 2400-2500 players.
Oh my lord, FIDE this, FIDE that...
Oh my lord, the cycle is this, the cycle is that...
Oh my lord, women's chess is this, women's chess is that...
This whole thread is so pointless, even if almost entertaining.
Because...
Bob, Alex, Kerry, Gary, Jack, Kevin, etc... have no business, power of decision, awareness of the participants' interests when it relates to women's chess.
There was an uproar from the players themselves, the elite, the ones who challenged the crown, against the Knock-Outs being the single determining factor on who would be world champion. Now the majority seems to be content with this same knock-out tournament, being one of the steps in which one can challenge for the crown. If this is to happen with women, it must come from them.
Now the majority seems to be content with this same knock-out tournament, being one of the steps in which one can challenge for the crown. If this is to happen with women, it must come from them.
A.Kosteniuk summarized her performance (not the best) on her livejournal. She hopes that one day the Women system become same to Men, and a Knockout become World Cup.
IM/WIM Anna Ushenina of Ukraine, rated 2452, is now the Women's World Chess Champion! She won the first 2-game rapid match tie-break this morning, 1 1/2 - 1/2, over former Women's World Champion, GM Antoaneta Stefanova of Bulgaria.
I hope those that say the 2-game match knockout Women's World Championship format is so great and entertaining, will do a wonderful job with the public, promoting the # 37, woman player in the world, a non-GM, as our role model for women's chess and the world's Women's Chess Champion.
IM/WIM Anna Ushenina of Ukraine, rated 2452, is now the Women's World Chess Champion! She won the first 2-game rapid match tie-break this morning, 1 1/2 - 1/2, over former Women's World Champion, GM Antoaneta Stefanova of Bulgaria.
I hope those that say the 2-game match knockout Women's World Championship format is so great and entertaining, will do a wonderful job with the public, promoting the # 37, woman player in the world, a non-GM, as our role model for women's chess and the world's Women's Chess Champion.
Bob A
FIDE's policies very much look like an amateur chess game : a succession of trials and errors. And FIDE it seems has to commit all of them (the errors) to finally find its way. They did the same thing for the (men?) World championship. After crowning a bunch of obscure players "world champion" in knock out formats, they finally realised that was hurting the value of the title badly. Now they do the same thing with the women until they realise it is just as harmful. How long will it take, or how many Usheninas as "world champion" will it take to come back to a formula with some common sense to bring back prestige to the female world title ?
How course the women won't complain because in any ways they get way more money than they deserve and they know it. Furthermore they have plenty of serious events to make up for the occasionnal silly knock-out event.
FIDE's policies very much look like an amateur chess game : a succession of trials and errors. And FIDE it seems has to commit all of them (the errors) to finally find its way. They did the same thing for the (men?) World championship. After crowning a bunch of obscure players "world champion" in knock out formats, they finally realised that was hurting the value of the title badly. Now they do the same thing with the women until they realise it is just as harmful. How long will it take, or how many Usheninas as "world champion" will it take to come back to a formula with some common sense to bring back prestige to the female world title ?
How course the women won't complain because in any ways they get way more money than they deserve and they know it. Furthermore they have plenty of serious events to make up for the occasionnal silly knock-out event.
This from the person who not so long ago was crowned the "Canadian Champion" and held that for at least a year only because he won a single Closed tournament in which much better Canadian players than he did not attend.
For all those who are complaining about "obscure" players winning a knockout event and being awarded a World Champion title, let me ask you this: what if Eric Hansen or Aman Hambleton, the dynamic duo you are all drooling over right now, were to win some major title, maybe even World Champion, by winning a knockout event? I can pretty much guess what you'd all be saying in that case. Well, except for Jean, who would still be on his hypocritical high horse.
Or how about this: I seem to recall that an NHL team that finished 8th in its division last year... won the Stanley Cup! Via a knockout mechanism to boot.
While in the NFL, a wild-card team that barely squeaked into the knockout format won the Super Bowl... the last 2 years running.
Oh, that's right, those games, hockey and football, they involve something called LUCK. Chess doesn't have that, so it shouldn't have players not even in the top 10 earning World Champion titles, even if they did it fair and square.
So for chess, let's try this: the World Champion is simply the top rated player in the world. Period. And for every month that goes by that you are in the top N rated players in the world and you don't play another player in the top N (where N could be 10 or 20 or 50), you lose X rating points.
Then chess doesn't even need knockout events. In fact, it doesn't even need title matches. It just needs monthly rating lists. How exciting would that be?
The poker world doesn't have this problem with luck. It is indeed some obscure amateur that year after year wins the WSOP Main Event and gets crowned "World Champion". And guess what, the poker world is doing very well, thank you very much. That World Champion still travels the globe being recognised and adulated everywhere he goes (sorry, women, no cases of "she" yet), even years later when he has failed to win anything even close to a World Champion title.
This doesn't happen quite on the same scale for a chess World Champion. But maybe, if knockout events were to actually stick around and continue to be the "luck virus" that infects chess... maybe then the snowball would start rolling down the hill: every year a new, obscure "World Champion", leading to more reason for one to study chess enough to get to the knockout stage, leading to more people taking up serious study of chess, leading to more knockout events, leading to more obscure winners, leading to more people taking up chess, leading to more knockout events... ???
With computer chess engines already far far ahead of even the highest rated human player, what does a "World Champion" title really mean any more? Why hang onto this mirage of it meaning the best standard chess player in the world, female or indifferent? Instead, the title of "Chess World Champion", if it is to only apply to humans, should apply to aspects of chess that are PARTICULARLY human. And one of those aspects would be, how well do you handle the stress of a knockout format? Another one is: how well do you play when the only way to win is to WIN, and drawing only leads to you being given less and less time to win? These can't be considered for or by a computer chess engine, which knows only to calculate the best next move for a given chess position.
Chess needs the introduction of more elements of randomness, not less. For example, a tied match leads to a new match of chess960. If that is tied (Hans Jung will love this one), it leads into a match of blindfold standard chess, moves are spoken, any incorrect move loses. And if that leads to a tie, blindfold chess960 play. Only then do you break ties with reduced time controls.
Jean Hebert wants the female world title to carry more "prestige". Maybe he should follow a WSOP Main Event winner around for a while and get a whole new perspective on prestige. He won't like it or agree with it, but he won't be able to say that luck destroys prestige, as he is saying here. And any impurity he ascribes to a title that involves elements of luck ignores the impurity of the chess World Champion title due to the fact of computer chess engines being the true World Champions.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
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