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Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth
There is one factor that comes into play here - the Canadian rule is that if you play in a section in the CYCC, and win, you must play in that section in the WYCC.
So if one is to assess where Harmony might play, John Coleman's analysis that she would have been # 30 in the U 8 Open this year is relevant. This seems an expectation that is not realistic, that she could win the U 8 Open. So it becomes a question whether she wants to win the CYCC U 8 Open, since it throws her to the wolves, so to speak.
There is value in winning a world title - nothing shabby about being World Girls U 8 Gold Medallist. So this may be the critical factor in Harmony passing on the 2013 CYCC U 8 Open, and playing in the U 8 Girls, despite it being a weak tournament for her. If she would win it, as expected, then she can play in that group in the WYCC.
Bob A
Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Monday, 19th November, 2012, 07:00 PM.
So you think for a seven year old to win the world under-8 championship would be "a complete waste of her time". Really?
At her current FIDE rating (1438), Harmony would be ranked 30th on the under-8 open (based on the 2012 list).
She would be ranked 112 of the 115 rated players in the under-10 open (based on the 2012 list). She may be good, but she ain't THAT good.
It might be nice to win a Canadian title first of any type. Many of the top girls ( eg Yuanling, Dina ) actually lost games at CYCC when they were younger. Some didn't even win their section. Part of becoming a competitor is learning how to take events you are supposed to win. I think pundits do a great disservice to all the top girls when they understate the difficulty of winning these sections some years. Often the leader themselves are the huge challenge for other girls. Sure, there are years when several sections are weak in nature, and the boys sections are always deeper in numbers and strength. But occasionally the girls champions are as good, possibly better, then the boys champions. Just not very often.
So you think for a seven year old to win the world under-8 championship would be "a complete waste of her time". Really?
At her current FIDE rating (1438), Harmony would be ranked 30th on the under-8 open (based on the 2012 list).
She would be ranked 112 of the 115 rated players in the under-10 open (based on the 2012 list). She may be good, but she ain't THAT good.
John, it's always a pleasure when our paths occasionally cross at a chess tournament. And to this very day, I'm not sure my son or I will ever see a better run tournament than the 2010 CYCC in Windsor.
So allow me to kindly point out that you and a few others have failed to distinguish between my CYCC and my WYCC references. The "complete waste of time" reference applied solely to the former.
There is one factor that comes into play here - the Canadian rule is that if you play in a section in the CYCC, and win, you must play in that section in the WYCC.
So if one is to assess where Harmony might play, John Coleman's analysis that she would have been # 30 in the U 8 Open this year is relevant. This seems an expectation that is not realistic, that she could win the U 8 Open. So it becomes a question whether she wants to win the CYCC U 8 Open, since it throws her to the wolves, so to speak.
There is value in winning a world title - nothing shabby about being World Girls U 8 Gold Medallist. So this may be the critical factor in Harmony passing on the 2013 CYCC U 8 Open, and playing in the U 8 Girls, despite it being a weak tournament for her. If she would win it, as expected, then she can play in that group in the WYCC.
Bob A
If this is CFC 'law', Bob, then I'll throw a little Dickens at you and say "The law is a ass." (Mr. Bumble if I'm not mistaken).
Praytell why Harmony should not be allowed to play in a CYCC section that best serves her chess development and then play in a different WYCC section? Aren't we supposed to be helping develop our juniors, not hindering them?
John, ... allow me to kindly point out that you and a few others have failed to distinguish between my CYCC and my WYCC references. The "complete waste of time" reference applied solely to the former.
Oops, sorry about that. :o I thought it was a strange thing to say.
Thanks. That's the reply I was going to give to Jack.
But I do believe that if a winner of one section of the CYCC, wants to play in another section at the WYCC, and forfeit her own first prize, and " official representative " status, and pay their own way, then they can do that. So Harmony can play/win the 2013 CYCC U 8 Open, and then switch to the 1013 WYCC U 8 Girls, but it costs her financially. It is a lot of pressure on the parents to have her play the CYCC U 8 Girls. Even if it is a " waste of time ", it is not a " waste of money ". And I think is would still be nice to be the Canadian Girls Champion, and have some bragging rights.
It may create problems with an "official" player who gets an accommodation for free at the WYCC.
I believe that next year everyone gets free accommodation at WYCC whether they are the official representative or not so the hit would only be $1000 (which is still quite significant).
Thanks. That's the reply I was going to give to Jack.
But I do believe that if a winner of one section of the CYCC, wants to play in another section at the WYCC, and forfeit her own first prize, and " official representative " status, and pay their own way, then they can do that. So Harmony can play/win the 2013 CYCC U 8 Open, and then switch to the 1013 WYCC U 8 Girls, but it costs her financially. It is a lot of pressure on the parents to have her play the CYCC U 8 Girls. Even if it is a " waste of time ", it is not a " waste of money ". And I think is would still be nice to be the Canadian Girls Champion, and have some bragging rights.
Bob A
The fairytale world of ChessTalk pundits does seem to assume an endless supply of money to fund young chess players. So does the CFC youth system; its designed for upper middle class families or richer. And of course the parents are expected to be the happy sponsor and accept the usual criticisms if they don't follow the "preferred" path of others.
Certainly if you and others wanted to progress your philosophy, you'd need to do significant fundraising amongst yourselves to do so. Harmony I'm sure would appreciate a few donors funding her CYCC and WYCC trips next year.
If I heard you had set up a charity for females in chess and were fully supporting any junior girl ( perhaps of a certain playing level ) to play in the open sections, well, you might actually further your supposed cause.
But remember, its going to take deep pockets to make any meaningful lasting change, and has to go way beyond any one player. This habit of latching onto every new junior girl wonder as the person who will change things is actually self defeating to that purpose. At age 7 its absurd.
Remember, its been 10 years since Hazel played in the open section, NOBODY has done so since ( unless the sections were amalgamated ). The reaction to that entry was a black mark in Canadian chess, with almost the entire CFC governship successfully voting to prevent it from happening again ( since rescinded as likely being illegal and poorly thought out ). And, for those unaware of what occurred, we required a call from the CFC President to even accept the entry, and we had to promise that if she won she wouldn't go to WYCC ( which was our intention anyways only reason we'd accept those terms ). And for those who claim these kind of choices have a meaningful effect on chess, well, people forget very quickly and I don't buy into the idea that winning the event makes it a different issue. All the risk rests with the player and their family; pony up the funds for her CYCC/WYCC next year and/or reform the event rules and maybe you are achieving something.
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