Games trying GM Suttle's openings starting with losses

[Hans Jung]

Well Hugh you invited me to share so ... Last round (4) Sunday pm White: Keith Wight 1.e4 d6 2.Nc3 g6 3.f4 Bg7 4.Nf3 c6 5.d4 b5 6.a3 a6 7.Be3 Nd7 8.Be2 Qc7 9.00 Bb7 10.Qd2 c5 11.d5 Ngf6 (...Nh6 lends a distinctly more Suttles flavor but I had the position I wanted - Lawrence, Hugh, anybody? - all comments appreciated) 12.Bd3 Ng4 13.Rae1 Nxe3 14.Qxe3 Bxc3 15. bxc3 c4 16.Be2 Qc5 17.Nd4 Qxa3 18.Qh3 Nf6 19.Bd1 h5? (This was an introduction to a plan that in hindsight was rash. I was satisfied with my position up until now but the clear line of play that followed led to my position blowing up). 20 g4 Bc8 21.f5 Rg8 22. g5 gxf5 23.exf5 Rxg5+ 24.Kh1 Rg4 25.Bxg4 hxg4 26.Qh8+ Kd7 27.Rxe7+ Kxe7 28. Nc6+ and mate next move. I really like the dynamic positions I have been getting by starting with GM Suttles ideas and in this game I think I know where I went wrong but I dont know exactly where I could improve my play in this game? Lawrence or anybody any ideas? All comments appreciated.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Games trying GM Suttle's openings starting with losses

For better visualization.

The original game:
1.e4 d6 2.Nc3 g6 3.f4 Bg7 4.Nf3 c6 5.d4 b5 6.a3 a6 7.Be3 Nd7 8.Be2 Qc7 9.00 Bb7 10.Qd2 c5 11.d5



Ngf6 (...Nh6 lends a distinctly more Suttles flavor but I had the position I wanted - Lawrence, Hugh, anybody? - all comments appreciated)

12.Bd3 Ng4 13.Rae1 Nxe3 14.Qxe3 Bxc3 15. bxc3 c4 16.Be2 Qc5 17.Nd4 Qxa3 18.Qh3 Nf6 19.Bd1


h5?
(This was an introduction to a plan that in hindsight was rash. I was satisfied with my position up until now but the clear line of play that followed led to my position blowing up).

20 g4 Bc8 21.f5 Rg8 22. g5 gxf5 23.exf5 Rxg5+ 24.Kh1 Rg4 25.Bxg4 hxg4 26.Qh8+ Kd7 27.Rxe7+ Kxe7 28. Nc6+ and mate next move.

PGN
1. e4 d6 2. Nc3 g6 3. f4 Bg7 4. Nf3 c6 5. d4 b5 6. a3 a6 7. Be3 Nd7 8. Be2 Qc7 9.O-O Bb7 10. Qd2 c5 11. d5 Ngf6 12. Bd3 Ng4 13. Rae1 Nxe3 14. Qxe3 Bxc3 15. bxc3 c4 16. Be2 Qc5 17. Nd4 Qxa3 18. Qh3 Nf6 19. Bd1 h5 20. g4 Bc8 21. f5 Rg8 22. g5 gxf5 23. exf5 Rxg5+ 24. Kh1 Rg4 25. Bxg4 hxg4 26. Qh8+ Kd7 27. Rxe7+ Kxe7 28. Nc6+

[Hans Jung]

Re: Games trying GM Suttle's openings starting with losses

Thanks for adding the diagrams Egidijus! I appreciate the assist.

[Lawrence Day]

Re: Games trying GM Suttle's openings starting with losses

1. e4 d6 2. Nc3 g6 3. f4 Bg7 4. Nf3 c6 5. d4 b5 6. a3 a6 7. Be3 Nd7 8. Be2 Qc7 9.O-O Bb7 10. Qd2 c5 11. d5
[11.e5 is more challenging. 11..Nh6 12.Ng5 looks scariest.]
Ngf6 12. Bd3 Ng4 13. Rae1 Nxe3 14. Qxe3 Bxc3!?
[Ambitious since 14..Nb6 left White all dressed up with nowhere to go as e4-e5 will always hang d5. Black is better. Note the d5 square is a thematic target on the long diagonal compared to a3.] 15. bxc3 c4 16. Be2 Qc5 17. Nd4 Qxa3 18. Qh3 Nf6 19. Bd1 h5
[This looks normal.]
20. g4 Bc8 21. f5 Rg8 22. g5 gxf5 23. exf5 Rxg5+ 24. Kh1 Rg4?
[Blunder and anti-thematic. 24..Nxd5 prevents Qe3, guards mate on e7 and opens extra yummy long diagonal. Then exchange sacks loom, e.g. 25.Qh4 f6 26.Bxh5+ Rxh5 looks good for Black.]
25. Bxg4 hxg4 26. Qh8+ Kd7 27. Rxe7+ Kxe7 28. Nc6+ 1-0

[Ben Daswani]

Re: Games trying GM Suttle's openings starting with losses

I get in a lot of positions like that. I probably would have played ...e6 at some point after your opponent played d5. Not right away, but fairly soon.

But I'm terrible at openings, so don't read too much into my opinion. :)

[Lawrence Day]

Re: Games trying GM Suttle's openings starting with losses

fwiw 8..Qc7 varies from Honfi-Szabo 1968 8..Nb6 9.O-O Nf6 10.h3 Bb7 11.Qe1 Qc7 12.Rd1 Rc8 13.Qh4 c5 14.dxc5 slightly better for White but eventually a draw.

[Jason Lohner]

Re: Games trying GM Suttle's openings starting with losses

"1. e4 d6 2. Nc3 g6 3. f4 Bg7 4. Nf3 c6 5. d4 b5 6. a3 a6 7. Be3 Nd7 8. Be2 Qc7 9.O-O Bb7 10. Qd2 c5 11. d5 Ngf6 12. Bd3 Ng4 13. Rae1 Nxe3 14. Qxe3 Bxc3 15. bxc3 c4 16. Be2 Qc5 17. Nd4 Qxa3 18. Qh3 Nf6 19. Bd1 h5 20. g4 Bc8 21. f5 Rg8 22. g5 gxf5 23. exf5 Rxg5+ 24. Kh1 Rg4 25. Bxg4 hxg4 26. Qh8+ Kd7 27. Rxe7+ Kxe7 28. Nc6+"

although I'm just a n00b at this game, I have been in many positions like this as both white and black. The move that struck me as a mistake was 14. Bxc3... go to all the trouble to get the bishop on that great diagonal and then to just give it away for a knight that didn't seem to be doing much. I probably would have tried to lock up the kingside and then push on the queenside where it seems you had the advantage... I play a system as white with positions much like this. When I play f4 I love when the play turns kingside because I have won a many games when I am able to open it up and get my queen in enemy territory :)

[Bill Evans]

Re: Games trying GM Suttle's openings starting with losses

Hi everyone

Here is a sample of my game viewer page. I used the Wight - Jung game along with the light comments of Lawrence Day.



Feedback from IE users is most welcome.

Click me

[Alex Toolsie]

GM Suttle's Openings

1. e4 d6 2. Nc3 g6 3. f4 Bg7 4. Nf3 c6 5. d4 b5 6. a3 a6 7. Be3 Nd7 8. Be2 Qc7 9.O-O Bb7 10. Qd2 c5 11. d5
[11.e5 is more challenging. 11..Nh6 12.Ng5 looks scariest.]
Ngf6 12. Bd3 Ng4 13. Rae1 Nxe3 14. Qxe3 Bxc3!?
[Ambitious since 14..Nb6 left White all dressed up with nowhere to go as e4-e5 will always hang d5. Black is better. Note the d5 square is a thematic target on the long diagonal compared to a3.] 15. bxc3 c4 16. Be2 Qc5 17. Nd4 Qxa3 18. Qh3 Nf6 19. Bd1 h5
[This looks normal.]
20. g4 Bc8 21. f5 Rg8 22. g5 gxf5 23. exf5 Rxg5+ 24. Kh1 Rg4?
[Blunder and anti-thematic. 24..Nxd5 prevents Qe3, guards mate on e7 and opens extra yummy long diagonal. Then exchange sacks loom, e.g. 25.Qh4 f6 26.Bxh5+ Rxh5 looks good for Black.]
25. Bxg4 hxg4 26. Qh8+ Kd7 27. Rxe7+ Kxe7 28. Nc6+ 1-0

Lawerence, I put this game up with your annotations. I thought it was the least I could do since you added your analysis.

The Game


Overall it looks like it was a lucky finish for GM Suttle.

[Lawrence Day]

Re: Games trying GM Suttle's openings starting with losses

Alex, I think you missed the previous thread starting "A model for tournaments..." which describes who is playing and the circumstances of the game.

It is very compact tournament arrangement allowing four boards which fit in John Brown's apartment quite comfortably. Six players are local invitees in a round robin and two are stronger, and fairly evenly matched so there is a sporting question of who will win their 4-game match. Also it's educational for the other players to have a stronger board to watch. When I played in one of these back in the '90s the exhibition match was against another IM, Ron Livshits and we split evenly.

The arrangement solves a lot of problems that Toronto-area tournaments encounter like expensive room rentals, ferocious closing times and finnicky rules about where food and alcohol is permitted in public spaces. Private tournaments avoid all such difficulties but do require a friendly host and compatible players.

Last spring the long-awaited comprehensive study of GM Duncan Suttles' games by Bruce Harper and Yasser Seirawan came out. Check out suttlesbook.com/. It was Suttles' ideas, not Suttles himself present in Brampton.

So Hans Jung decided to try some of the radically hypermodern ideas in the book to see how they fared today. I might note that back 1995ish when Hans Jung won a strong Ontario Closed he was defending with 1.e4 e5, but he may have used up his entire life ration of killer instinct in that one tournament and the Canadian Closed he qualified to as a result.

With the two game viewers posted side by side you might notice the improvements Bill Evans has worked out. For example in Oz's the pop-up annotation box appears after the move played so the alternative move comment doesn't apply to the position shown. Also if there are heavy notes in the text, then the (e.g. USCF's current viewer) board scrolls out of view as one reads it. I know Bill is looking for feedback from people who enjoy playing through games; mine was positive.

[Lawrence Day]

Re: Games trying GM Suttle's openings starting with losses

Alex, I think you missed the previous thread starting "A model for tournaments..." which describes who is playing and the circumstances of the game.

It is very compact tournament arrangement allowing four boards which fit in John Brown's apartment quite comfortably. Six players are local invitees in a round robin and two are stronger, and fairly evenly matched so there is a sporting question of who will win their 4-game match. Also it's educational for the other players to have a stronger board to watch. When I played in one of these back in the '90s the exhibition match was against another IM, Ron Livshits and we split evenly.

The arrangement solves a lot of problems that Toronto-area tournaments encounter like expensive room rentals, ferocious closing times and finnicky rules about where food and alcohol is permitted in public spaces. Private tournaments avoid all such difficulties but do require a friendly host and compatible players.

Last spring the long-awaited comprehensive study of GM Duncan Suttles' games by Bruce Harper and Yasser Seirawan came out. Check out suttlesbook.com/. It was Suttles' ideas, not Suttles himself present in Brampton.

So Hans Jung decided to try some of the radically hypermodern ideas in the book to see how they fared today. I might note that back 1995ish when Hans Jung won a strong Ontario Closed he was defending with 1.e4 e5, but he may have used up his entire life ration of killer instinct in that one tournament and the Canadian Closed he qualified to as a result.

With the two game viewers posted side by side you might notice the improvements Bill Evans has worked out. For example in Oz's the pop-up annotation box appears after the move played so the alternative move comment doesn't apply to the position shown. Also if there are heavy notes in the text, then the (e.g. USCF's current viewer) board scrolls out of view as one reads it. I know Bill is looking for feedback from people who enjoy playing through games; mine was positive.

Forgot to mention another important improvement: you can print out the annotated game on paper if you want!

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Games trying GM Suttle's openings starting with losses

Feedback from IE users is most welcome.

I have not understood what the black triangle button does (except that it changes own color.) Maybe a small balloon with a short text would help.

Wish list: possibility to analyze the game by moving pieces (dream: to submit the variation

[John Cordes]

Re: Games trying GM Suttle's openings starting with losses

I have not understood what the black triangle button does (except that it changes own color.) Maybe a small balloon with a short text would help.

I'm pretty sure the viewer is Palmate / Palview. Clicking on the triangle (when white, so it turns to black) allows stepping into variations when using the 'forward' button.

[Bill Evans]

Re: Games trying GM Suttle's openings starting with losses

I have not understood what the black triangle button does (except that it changes own color.) Maybe a small balloon with a short text would help.

Wish list: possibility to analyze the game by moving pieces (dream: to submit the variation

Hi

I built in a way to move the pieces on the board. Just click on piece and then click on target square.

After moving pieces around just click on the right frame Bold move to return to game.

The only flaw is that one can move the piece anywhere ie illegal move. It would be a real job of coding to allow only legal moves....but maybe ??

In terms of submitting a variation I can add your comments and clickable variation(s) and credit your analysis....send me an email or just post your variations on this forum. Please allow a day or two lag.

Thanks for your question

Bill Evans

[Hans Jung]

Re: Games trying GM Suttle's openings starting with losses

Wow! Thanks everybody for the replies and a special thanks to Lawrence for the analytical notes and the background info (although the Ontario Closed and Canadian Closed in 1996 did not sap my killer instinct - more like trying to combine organizational duties and teaching schedules with tournaments in recent years) GM Suttles ideas are adding a new dynamic and zest to my play although now Im feeling I may never get beyond the learning curve. I am realizing more and more that an intricate sense of timing of moves and a fine positional understanding are involved. I also have a major weakness in my play in that sometimes I am seized with a reckless urge of ambition in positions when I already have large positional compensation (as Lawrence already noted). I will post the other games as soon as I can.