Do you like the idea of Throne Chess as a variant?

[Kevin Pacey]

This is a poll to see if respondents like the idea of a chess variant that I came up with that I've called Throne Chess. It's the same as standard 8x8 chess, except in Throne Chess another way to win a game besides checkmate is for one side's king to ever reach the home square of the other side's king, without putting itself in check (as usual). That is, if White ever plays K to e8 he wins, and if Black ever plays K to e1 he wins. Hence, it is possible to win with a bare king, and it's possible there may be more decisive games on average than in standard chess, were this variant to become quite popular.

For further discussion of this idea for a variant, see post #195 (and beyond) in the following thread:

http://www.chesstalk.info/forum/show...ry-Rare/page10

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: Do you like the idea of Throne Chess as a variant?

With six votes in so far, it's interesting to see that there are already 4 responses to the idea of Throne Chess that are as favourable as the poll answers allow for. Cool.

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: Do you like the idea of Throne Chess as a variant?

For those who may be interested, I just posted a chesstalk blog entry featuring 4 Throne Chess endgames. Blogs can be accessed by clicking on 'Blogs' at the top of the screen on page one of chesstalk, or, if you wish to see just my blogs, click on the number of blog entries that is now shown below my avatar on any of my normal chesstalk posts.

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: Do you like the idea of Throne Chess as a variant?

Thought I'd bump up this poll thread at least one more time. I currently have created 4 blogs that each feature four Throne Chess endings, for a total of sixteen somewhat varied positions, which may give viewers some insight into the many possible differences between these and standard chess endgames.

[Ken Kurkowski]

Re: Do you like the idea of Throne Chess as a variant?

Sounds like a form of chess you play in the bathroom:)

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: Do you like the idea of Throne Chess as a variant?

Sounds like a form of chess you play in the bathroom:)

I couldn't think of a better name for this variant, for the time being anyway. Your theme for such jokes did occur to me. However, winning with a Royal Flush in Poker may not sound any better.

For the moment I think 'Thronemate' sounds like a better way to describe ending the game by occupying the winning throne square in this variant than, say, the long winded "White takes the Throne". :)

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: Do you like the idea of Throne Chess as a variant?

I'm a bit surprised no one so far has voted to say that Throne Chess is an okay idea that is, however, too similar to standard chess for them to like. I did implicitly specify it was to be played with the standard starting position, on the standard 8x8 board (only), as far as this poll is concerned.

On the other hand, arguably Chess960 could be seen as too similar to standard chess as well (either variant may be seen as arguably more or less so, perhaps depending how fond one is not of the current theory-heavy opening and/or endgame phases of standard chess).

[Mathieu Cloutier]

Re: Do you like the idea of Throne Chess as a variant?

I like the idea of having an incentive to play on in otherwise drawn positions. Not sure if this variant would be the answer, but it does seem interesting.

Similarily, making stalemate a win would also lead to some major changes in the way we play the game.

On the other hand, the drawish nature of chess is why we can take some risks. In your Throne variant, noboby would sacrifice a pawn or an exchange if an eventual endgame can't be held. Unfortunately, the end result could be more boring draws where neither side tries to shift the balance of the game.

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: Do you like the idea of Throne Chess as a variant?

I like the idea of having an incentive to play on in otherwise drawn positions. Not sure if this variant would be the answer, but it does seem interesting.

Similarily, making stalemate a win would also lead to some major changes in the way we play the game.

On the other hand, the drawish nature of chess is why we can take some risks. In your Throne variant, noboby would sacrifice a pawn or an exchange if an eventual endgame can't be held. Unfortunately, the end result could be more boring draws where neither side tries to shift the balance of the game.

If I remember right, Bronstein once proposed that Stalemate be worth more than 1/2 a point (maybe 3/4 instead?).

In standard chess people are often afraid to sac material. Unclear if it would be at least as common a fear in most Throne Chess positions. My chesstalk blog entries so far have given a number of examples of what I think are theoretically drawn Throne Chess endgames, even down material. At the moment it seems difficult, for me at least, to form sweeping general rules of thumb for at least some types of Throne Chess endings, unlike for standard chess endings. What does seem clear is that having an active king could often be very important.

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: Do you like the idea of Throne Chess as a variant?

Incidentally, in Shogi (Japenese Chess - played on a 9x9 rectangular board), there is a concept called "Entering king", which refers to a kind of endgame (at least as far as the/either side with the/an entering king is concerned) where at least one side has a king that has entered deep into the opponent's half of the board. In Shogi, such a king is very hard to checkmate (unless a player who is hoping to mate an entering king has lots of pieces in hand to 'drop' on the board still), because in Shogi most pieces have better forward-moving capturing abilities than they do if making a retreating move. With such a king, it is hard to lose, although I seem to recall that if both sides have entering kings then the material value of the opposing armies can be tallied up and then the result (win/draw) depends on how close the value of each army is compared to the other.

In Throne Chess, a king that is close to the winning throne square might at times become harder to checkmate, for a different reason, perhaps (although pawns in standard or Throne Chess do indeed only move forward, as in Shogi).