CYCC U12 Girls section

[George Zhou]

Re: CYCC U12 Girls section

The CFC handbook is only a very general link to the real world. Take this clause:

708. Entries:

All eligible players who may qualify pursuant to Clause 703 and who wish to participate in the Youth Tournament shall notify the CFC Business Office no later than 45 days before the start of the Championship of their intention to participate, enclosing their entry fee of $225.00. The CFC Board of Directors may delegate this function to the tournament organizers. Entries which cannot be accepted because the number exceeds the number of players allowed shall be advised thereof and their entry fee returned to them. Players qualifying pursuant to Clause 703(b) shall send in their entries as soon as is practical after the Provincial Champion is known but in any case no later than three weeks prior to the start of the Youth Tournament. In exceptional circumstances, the CFC Board of Directors can vary the time limits in this Clause.

So, are you enforcing the three-week limit?

John always has a quotation from handbook. Knowledgeable person always. I don't see here mentioning playing up, looks like for all qualifying players should register 45 days before CYCC, which means the CYCC registration should close 45 days before the tournaments starts(doesn't seem to be the case).
Also my understanding for U18, U16, U14 ... as long as the player's age is UNDER 18, 16 or 14 should qualify, you may put restriction for playing up by limit rating must be top 10 in that age section player choose to play.
it seems like that no question to play Under one section in WYCC and USCF as long as the player's age is not older. Andrew mentioned an example for WYCC, I saw an example in USCF all girls championship this year in Chicago, the girl Gorti (1800 player)which belongs to U12 and U18, she played in U18 Girls, and won 2nd place, while another girl Jennifer(1900) in her club played U12 girls, didn't even get top 3.
In this year's CYCC U12 girls, there are 3 WCM(not sure how many WCMs in Canada totally), possibly similar case like All girls championship.
I can see another benefit might be that playing in older girls group won't worry about rating loss as most players are not very low rated, but in U12 girls, if a player's rating is higher, while many other strong players from Vietnam, Quebec and BC ratings are so low, the Ontario girls may lose ratings if cannot win the games against players from Vietnam, Quebec, and B.C

I would suggest CYCC or CFC adjust CFC rating by player's FIDE rating and FQE rating, since some player may only play FIDE games and FQE games, the CYCC games they played are just CYCC or NAYCC years ago.

[George Zhou]

Re: CYCC U12 Girls section

This is definitely a reasonable strategy for maximizing the chance of winning a prize/qualification spot. Though, in addition to some of the problems mentioned by other posters involved in estimating regional differences in ratings, there's also a big risk: a late entry from a high-rated player could totally kill your chances.

[edit - I only just thought of this, but what I described above has already happened: Qiyu Zhou just entered the U14 girls, and she out-rates most girls in the country by 100s of points. That would have been a nasty surprise for any prize-seeking U12 section-hoppers.]

FWIW, the CFC Handbook says this would have to be approved by the executive. The HB doesn't specify a time-frame for when players/parents would request to play "up" an age group, but if it's the "45 days" mentioned for declaring their intention to play, it would be too late to do that for this year's CYCC.

708
{Motion Bunning/Taylor in 2002-3 GL1 From AGM}:
The Executive may allow exceptional players to move up to a higher age group.

Thanks John for saying "This is definitely a reasonable strategy for maximizing the chance of winning a prize/qualification spot", just wondering if there is a rule stating about this, if no, I assume it would be same as other older players as long as the player's age is UNDER that section requirement, I never see anywhere saying playing a group must be above some age, I knew there is rating requirement to be above some rating to play up.
Being the organizer, if someone request to play in a group older than her age now, how do you handle it?
Also do you know for the U18, U16 girls section, since there are only 3 or less players, are they going to merge with OPEN section in same age? or merge with all U14G , U16G, U18G together?

[John Upper]

Re: CYCC U12 Girls section

Thanks John for saying "This is definitely a reasonable strategy for maximizing the chance of winning a prize/qualification spot", just wondering if there is a rule stating about this,

the only rule I've seen is that the CFC exec would have to approve the request.

I never see anywhere saying playing a group must be above some age, I knew there is rating requirement to be above some rating to play up.

I think there is no rule about a minimum age or minimum rating.
I would guess that a player with a very low rating would not be permitted to play in an older age group, but that would be a decision made by the CFC exec.

Being the organizer, if someone request to play in a group older than her age now, how do you handle it?

two things:
1) I'm not in charge of the CYCC (or CO). -- Halldor Palsson would be the one to make these decisions. Technically, my job is just to make sure the website works and has all the latest information. As it happens, that has required me to learn more about CFC rules than any normal person would want to know. :p
2) I expect we'd have to ask them to give some reasons for wanting to "play up", and then review them with the CFC exec.
As it happens, no one has requested to play in a higher age group this year.... though a few parents have accidentally filled out the registration form putting their child in a lower age group.
Has anyone ever requested to play in a higher age group?
Here's an interesting scenario to consider: imagine there's a really strong girl (2300+) in the girls' U16 section, another U16 girl rated 2000 might reasonably think she has a better chance to win the girls' U18 section, and asks to play in that group. Is that OK? Is telling her she can't OK? It's not at all obvious to me what the best policy is here.

Also do you know for the U18, U16 girls section, since there are only 3 or less players, are they going to merge with OPEN section in same age? or merge with all U14G , U16G, U18G together?

That will be decided when all the entries are in. Merging groups is one option, another is running them as Round Robins or even double round robins. The best solution for each group will depend on the exact number of entries in that section, and we don't know that yet....

...which, incidentally, gives the answer to a question that came up earlier in this thread: obviously, we did not cut off entries 45 days before the event. (had we done so, about 1/3 of the entries would have been disqualified)

After the event is over, I might suggest to the CFC that they change the "45 day" period to something less draconian -- maybe 7-14 days -- but that's up to the Govs.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: CYCC U12 Girls section

My own feeling is that the cutoff period should be set by the tournament organizer. The 45 day period was for when the entries were sent to the CFC office. The last time that was done it went really badly.

[George Zhou]

Re: CYCC U12 Girls section

the only rule I've seen is that the CFC exec would have to approve the request.




I think there is no rule about a minimum age or minimum rating.
I would guess that a player with a very low rating would not be permitted to play in an older age group, but that would be a decision made by the CFC exec.



two things:
1) I'm not in charge of the CYCC (or CO). -- Halldor Palsson would be the one to make these decisions. Technically, my job is just to make sure the website works and has all the latest information. As it happens, that has required me to learn more about CFC rules than any normal person would want to know. :p
2) I expect we'd have to ask them to give some reasons for wanting to "play up", and then review them with the CFC exec.
As it happens, no one has requested to play in a higher age group this year.... though a few parents have accidentally filled out the registration form putting their child in a lower age group.
Has anyone ever requested to play in a higher age group?
Here's an interesting scenario to consider: imagine there's a really strong girl (2300+) in the girls' U16 section, another U16 girl rated 2000 might reasonably think she has a better chance to win the girls' U18 section, and asks to play in that group. Is that OK? Is telling her she can't OK? It's not at all obvious to me what the best policy is here.



That will be decided when all the entries are in. Merging groups is one option, another is running them as Round Robins or even double round robins. The best solution for each group will depend on the exact number of entries in that section, and we don't know that yet....

...which, incidentally, gives the answer to a question that came up earlier in this thread: obviously, we did not cut off entries 45 days before the event. (had we done so, about 1/3 of the entries would have been disqualified)

After the event is over, I might suggest to the CFC that they change the "45 day" period to something less draconian -- maybe 7-14 days -- but that's up to the Govs.

Thanks John, very helpful info and prompt answers.

another question, I don't find on anywhere online mentioning that CYCC entry fee is refundable or not refundable, is it refundable?

Sorry too many questions, the reason I raise these questions, is that I may encounter these situation with my kids.

[John Upper]

Re: CYCC U12 Girls section

Thanks John, very helpful info and prompt answers.

another question, I don't find on anywhere online mentioning that CYCC entry fee is refundable or not refundable, is it refundable?

The refund policy is: whatever you paid - $25
(to cover PayPal expenses, and discourage people from entering to avoid late fees, only to withdraw later).

[George Zhou]

Re: CYCC U12 Girls section

The refund policy is: whatever you paid - $25
(to cover PayPal expenses, and discourage people from entering to avoid late fees, only to withdraw later).

Thanks very much John for your prompt answer