Detecting cheating in chess -try to understand the ideas behind the algorithms

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  • Detecting cheating in chess -try to understand the ideas behind the algorithms

    All the people who comment on the cheating scandal of Borislav Ivanov should first read http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~regan/ch...y/Golfers.html and spend some time trying to understand the ideas behind the algorithms. To summarize what Regan says "statistical analysis can only be supporting evidence of cheating, in cases that have some other concrete distinguishing mark. When such a mark is present, the stats can be effective, and can meet civil court standards of evidence". By black mark or spot he means "the spot can only be physical or observational evidence of cheating, something independent of the consideration of chess analysis and statistical matching to a computer." Regan is clear and precise, as one would expect of a respected academic. And finally he notes that "One thing that does not constitute a black spot is an unfounded accusation of cheating."

    People who have cannot or will not understand the statistical principles behind the algorithms are confused. In http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~regan/chess/fidelity/ Regan states that "The main statistical principle which these pages show has been misunderstood by the chess world is that a move that is given a clear standout evaluation by a program is much more likely to be found by a strong human player. And a match to any engine on such a move is much less statistically significant than one on a move given slight but sure preference over many close alternatives. Case in point, 2/23/09: The mention of Rybka in GM Mamedyarov's protest letter at the 2009 Aeroflot Open was evidently this kind of misunderstanding” And finally, in his words again from http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~regan/ch...y/Golfers.html he says "Note that you already need the full model described in my papers even just to judge this kind of outlier---if you merely get a lot of matching, you may simply have played an unusually forcing game."

    The other problem is that right now the cheaters are likely using standard chess engines at their full strength. But they could "detune" the engines to play at lower strength, and in this way "simulate" the progression of a chess player over time who is putting a lot of energy into studying and improving. The cheaters might also use open source chess engines, and change their evaluation methodology to add some randomness to the move selection. A very sophisticated cheater might even add some "human like" randomness so that the engine makes mistakes that are similar to those made by people; i.e. choosing a wrong move more often in a very complex tactical situation. As the cheaters improve and make their engines play more like humans it will become more difficult for these statistical methods to spot them. In short, it is hard to see how statistical approaches to catching cheaters will ever be anything other than supporting evidence that requires some other physical or observational evidence of cheating.

    Cheaters in standard tournaments either have an accomplice who communicates the moves to them, or if they are working on their own they are using a phone to cheat. In the first case simply delaying the move transmission should help, and in the second case the metal detectors will find their phones. And of course we can also apply the simple rule that no player can have a phone in their possession. So if the tournament is important it seems inevitable that these types of measures will be necessary; sad but true.

    For online chess playing systems the situation is direr. Here there will never be any physical evidence, so what can be done? I do not believe that the current cheating detection systems in the online world are anywhere near as accurate as Regan's system. As far as I know they do not have his software, and while they may sincerely try to implement his principles, their implementation may also be wrong. And remember, they need to test for cheating for a large number of players quickly. So they will not be able to spend as much computer time to test if someone is cheating as Regan does for the small number of high profile cases that he has worked on. This will likely result in a larger number of false positives, where people are accused of cheating simply because of correlation of moves with a chess engine on a small number of their games. This situation has already being reported on Chess Talk.

    You might say so what, why does being banned from some online chess program matter? Well recently Fide has announced its very own on line chess system http://www.fide.com/component/conten...ine-arena.html and there they make the following claim "As you know, there are many chess playing platforms. However, FIDE online arena has a unique feature that completely sets it apart: a highly sophisticated chess anti-cheating system." I wonder what Professor Regan thinks of this assertion? Where is the evidence given that this is true? You might say so what, I do not need to use this system, I can ignore it. But such a system may trap the unwary.

    Consider the following case: someone innocently plays for a while on the Fide online system and then their anti cheating software falsely accuses them of cheating. Is it not possible that this will eventually affect their long time control Fide rating or even their Fide status? I am sure all the people programming and running these online cheating systems have utter confidence in their anti-cheating technology. My response is so what? Where is the evidence that the Fide system meets Regan's requirement that "Allegations need to be presented and tested with scientifically rigorous methodology, open for peer review.” My answer to Fide's claim for the accuracy of their online system is “please show us some evidence!”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/20/sc...f=science&_r=0 is an example of how complex scientific concepts can quickly become "muddled" as they pass from the expert into the public domain. This article in the New York Times commenting on Regan’s system uses the word "proof" casually in a way that someone with even a rudimentary mathematical background would never do. The word proof has a particular meaning in the mathematical world. Statistical evidence is not a proof. However, a number of independent items of statistical evidence may be convincing beyond a reasonable doubt. We see by the false accusations made by people with a strong chess background, such as GM Mamedyarov, that just being chess Grandmaster does not make one qualified to deal with these issues.

  • #2
    Re: Detecting cheating in chess -try to understand the ideas behind the algorithms

    Thanks for posting this, Gerhard, and a special thanks for the links you've included.
    "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
    "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

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    • #3
      Re: Detecting cheating in chess -try to understand the ideas behind the algorithms

      Originally posted by Gerhard Roth View Post
      ... complex scientific concepts can quickly become "muddled" as they pass from the expert into the public domain. This article in the New York Times commenting on Regan’s system uses the word "proof" casually in a way that someone with even a rudimentary mathematical background would never do. The word proof has a particular meaning in the mathematical world. Statistical evidence is not a proof. However, a number of independent items of statistical evidence may be convincing beyond a reasonable doubt. We see by the false accusations made by people with a strong chess background, such as GM Mamedyarov, that just being chess Grandmaster does not make one qualified to deal with these issues.
      "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is not the only or even the main criteria by which evidence, or a decision on the evidence, is made. "On the balance of probabilities" is commonly used, as I noted in the example from the Ivanov thread in which a child is taken from her parent. And no court expects a mathematical proof to get a conviction.

      Jumping from arguments about mathematical proofs to arguments about what gets a conviction in a court is also "muddled" but in a different sort of way.
      Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.

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      • #4
        Re: Detecting cheating in chess -try to understand the ideas behind the algorithms

        Originally posted by Nigel Hanrahan View Post
        "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is not the only or even the main criteria by which evidence, or a decision on the evidence, is made. "On the balance of probabilities" is commonly used, as I noted in the example from the Ivanov thread in which a child is taken from her parent. And no court expects a mathematical proof to get a conviction.

        Jumping from arguments about mathematical proofs to arguments about what gets a conviction in a court is also "muddled" but in a different sort of way.

        Again, you present the idea that because "on the balance of probabilities" is a concept being used right now, that makes it right. That is implied by your comments.

        It does not make it right. The word "balance" is a weasel word in this context and can mean anything from 51% probability upwards. Societies throughout history have used even worse criteria ("She's got the mark of the devil!") as proof of guilt, but the progress of civilization has been marked by the removal of these wrong-headed approaches, and most of us (you excluded, I imagine) look back on them and realize we've made ourselves more civilized and reasonable, although not perfectly so.

        It appears, Nigel, that you go against this grain and are some kind of conservative zealot who wants to see criminal and civil convictions on even the flimsiest of evidence. If you think that is a wrong conclusion, do go ahead and argue against it. But so far every comment you have been making implies agreement with this "balance of probabilities" concept.
        Only the rushing is heard...
        Onward flies the bird.

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        • #5
          Re: Detecting cheating in chess -try to understand the ideas behind the algorithms

          Originally posted by Paul Bonham View Post
          Again, you present the idea that because "on the balance of probabilities" is a concept being used right now, that makes it right. That is implied by your comments.
          When I first came across the concept, almost 20 years ago now, I was quite surprised. I had no idea things could get decided on what seemed to me such tenuous claims. There are lots of things about the law that can and should change but we're not arguing that.

          We can argue about right as distinguished from what the law is until the cows come home. We won't get a flea hop closer to solving the issue, however.

          It appears, Nigel, that you go against this grain and are some kind of conservative zealot who wants to see criminal and civil convictions on even the flimsiest of evidence.
          lol. You're wrong about that. It's consistency I'm interested in, and catching cheaters while leaving responsible players alone. The good name of chess is under attack by these (alleged) cheaters and that concerns me.

          In any case, you're letting yourself be sidetracked and distracted by criticizing me rather than my arguments. It generally means that ... you're losing the argument. Take a deep breath and ... have at it again! Cheers!
          Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.

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          • #6
            Re: Detecting cheating in chess -try to understand the ideas behind the algorithms

            Originally posted by Nigel Hanrahan View Post
            When I first came across the concept, almost 20 years ago now, I was quite surprised. I had no idea things could get decided on what seemed to me such tenuous claims. There are lots of things about the law that can and should change but we're not arguing that.

            We can argue about right as distinguished from what the law is until the cows come home. We won't get a flea hop closer to solving the issue, however.

            ...It's consistency I'm interested in, and catching cheaters while leaving responsible players alone. The good name of chess is under attack by these (alleged) cheaters and that concerns me.

            In any case, you're letting yourself be sidetracked and distracted by criticizing me rather than my arguments. It generally means that ... you're losing the argument. Take a deep breath and ... have at it again! Cheers!

            In this very thread, the OP is basically saying that even Dr. Ken Regan believes more than just statistical evidence is necessary to decide someone is a cheater. The link the OP gave, with the Regan article on "The Parable of the Golfer", is something I hadn't seen before and it was enough to make me realize I was miscategorizing Regan as someone who thought the statistics told the entire story. Some of Regan's language is difficult to interpret, and I think he could do better at using layman's language to clarify his viewpoints, but the golfer article does have him doing a better job at that.

            For my misunderstanding I apologize to Dr. Regan and I hope he will maintain and continue to voice that opinion that more than the statistics alone are needed. He could start by writing to both FIDE and the ICC and voicing disagreement with their "secret police" statistical methods and disallowance of appeal.

            You, on the other hand, skip right by that point of the OP and bring up again the "balance of probabilities" argument as a counterargument. You DO want the statistics to be the be-all and end-all of the matter, that's quite obvious. I've given you chances to argue against that and you pass, so apparently it is the case. Here's another chance: if you don't think Regan's statistics alone are enough to convict Ivanov, please state that explicitly. And please don't try using the totally lame idea that Ivanov making his moves in regular time intervals somehow corroborates the statistics to make him guilty. As I've pointed out, poker players do this regularly as a psychological ploy against their opponents. In reality it implies nothing.

            And so in your drive for "consistency" you would allow grievous errors in SEPARATING the cheaters from the responsible players, by leaning towards "on the balance of probabilities". You have yet to comment on the situation with Rene Preotu's son. Your silence implies agreement that it had to be done to "protect the good name of chess" LOL.

            I've been saying this for several posts now, and that is obvious criticism of your arguments. You appear to have no defense against this. So just keep believing you're winning the argument, maybe a few similarly blinded people will believe you.
            Only the rushing is heard...
            Onward flies the bird.

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