Democratic Marxism

[Bob Armstrong]

DM - there will be abolition of "bourgeois" private property - there are articles on this concept.

Bob A

[Sid Belzberg]

DM - there will be abolition of "bourgeois" private property - there are articles on this concept.

Bob A

Great, bourgeois employers or entrepreneurs whowill have the property abolished because God forbid they create jobs and might turn a profit. The single example you
give of Allende is a joke.

[Dilip Panjwani]

The USA and the Chilean business community did everything in their power to block Allende on everything. He continued as best he could, being undermined at every turn.

So the typical USA answer was a "coup d'etat"........and lo and behold, Augusto Pinochet takes power, Allende having committed suicide in the Presidential palace, surrounded by coup soldiers, because he knew he would be tortured on being captured.

Bob A

Again, Bob, tell me which of the following was because of undermining by the US:
Allende began his reign by forcibly snatching away land, property and businesses from their owners; these nationalized entities predictably became cesspools of inefficiency, and 'all play & no sweat' led to demand outstripping supply, government getting busy with printing money even while new investments dried up, and inflation reached 600% annually.
You cannot blame the US for any of the above... it is DM which carries the blame...

[Dilip Panjwani]

DM - there will be abolition of "bourgeois" private property - there are articles on this concept.

Bob A

Bob, as the Marxist are delusional that their concept of running businesses is better than that of the bourgeois, let the Marxist government compete against the Bourgeois (instead of snatching away their property), and hope that all the 'mal-treated' workers from the bourgeois businesses will rush to join the Marxist run cesspools of inefficiency... even you should be able to predict that it won't take very long for your 'public' enterprises to end up in a big mess for workers, the consumers and the citizens at large, while the hard and smart working bourgeois and their team of hard and smart working employees (who 'sweat' at work in-order to 'play' when off work) will continue to thrive, keep their consumers happy and not be a burden on the tax-payers...

[Bob Armstrong]

The Sustainable Earth Discussion Project: A Collection of Villages
(A Discussion on Human Self-Government)


The Project

This Project seeks to initiate across the planet a conversation about a radical realignment in the world of both human relationships and human self-government.

Local Political Units (LPU's = Villages)

If the Earth was all local political units (A collection of villages), then we could have direct democracy via the new technologies (eliminate politicians by eliminating representative democracy).

Nations would dissolve themselves as countries and devolve all powers to the Villages. Sometimes the powers would be devolved to coalition committees of numbers of villages.

The Role of Governments

Governments would become the secretariats for carrying out the will of the people, as expressed in the Villages or groups of Villages.

Future Prospects

It is not a pipe dream.......it just needs people to come forward and demand it.

Multiplicity of Infrastructure

Question:

If you have hundreds of thousands of self-governing villages, how would you ever deal efficiently with all of the disparities of geography and economic potential?

Response

a. Geographic Differences

There is no doubt that geography showers certain benefits on the residents. For example, if you are a village on the Mediterranean Sea, there are economic advantages to having a Port. Are there any advantages to being a village in the middle of the Sahara Desert? Dry Air may be one from the health point of view of some people.

The goal of the "Sustainable Earth Project" is that through "cooperation", and "altruism", villages will work hard not to "win", but to help other villages to be 'Sustainable", even if that may mean some inequality of trade. This new paradigm works only if ALL villages are "sustainable". The goal is that each village is unique and has something to offer, that will keep the residents happy to be a resident in their village. We cannot afford to have villages that just don't work.

b. Economic Potential Differences

Again disparity causes problems........yes it is wonderful that some villages will have much greater economic potential than others. And we want to exploit this to the maximum (Within the rules of
sustainability). But it is not "us for ourselves" in the Sustainable Earth Project.....it is WE (All Villages) must achieve some decent local civic quality of life....so there is going to have to be "bartering", and it may have to be "Subsidy Bartering".........one village can trade something the other needs, for what it needs, despite the disparity of value of what is being "traded".
This may require that some villages are helped in some way by others (Sort of like Canadian Federal-Provincial transfer payments).

This is truly a sticky wicket.

One can think in terms of "regions of circles". So any village has a "circle of villages" around its borders. The most natural dynamic economically is for the village, and those in its first concentric
circle, to enter into bi-lateral, and multi-lateral arrangements, so that all villages get what they need, and can accomplish tasks important to all their residents, efficiently.

Physical/Legal Infrastructure (Needed to support inter-village dealings)

One could consider regional transportation as an "infrastructure" problem for a village to solve. This seems most amenable to cooperation - a village coalition to set up a regional transport authority for all of them in the first circle.

This is not so simple though..........we have circles overlaying circles in this paradigm.......But villages will be able to negotiate a workable, and desirable, solution to mass transit, where there is going to be decent service for all the residents of all villages in the "Coalition".

Villages with Scarce Resources

Question:

What will be done re poverty-stricken villages that have no prospects for improving themselves because all of their scarce resources are used up by their subsistence-level existence?"

Response

A partial, but substantial, solution to this is "Transfer Payments" to the "less sustainable on their own" villages. It may also be that some unsustainable villages will simply have to join with one or more bordering villages to achieve at least some basic level of sustainability, which then can be subsidized.

Invitation

We invite anyone reading this, and interested in giving input, to e-mail DMGI (See below):

Acknowledgement

Some material above arose in an exchange between Peter McKillop & Bob Armstrong.

Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)




Discussion Paper # 18 (The Sustainable Earth Discussion Project)

Most Recent Revision: 23/10/25

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[Bob Armstrong]

Societal Structure/Governance – A Fundamental Shift

Democratic Marxism Discussion Paper # 1


Note: cyclically re-posted for the benefit of new DMGI members and other readers.

Basic Premises

Democratic Marxism, in the view of the DM Global Institute (DMGI), has 3 basic premises:

1. Democracy: An open multi-party system, with one resident having one vote.

2. The Principle of Subsidiarity – A Local Political Unit (LPU) has the right and jurisdiction to do anything for itself of which it is capable. Two or more LPU's may form a separate coalition body at a higher level, when something is required which an LPU is unable to do, or do efficiently, on its own.

3. Economic Priority: Labour is to be predominant over Capital.

The Local Political Unit (LPU)

1. LPU Description

Primarily this will be a group of residents within a geographic area (Though it may be that an “Interest” Group may qualify). An LPU may be quite small, but should be large enough to be capable of providing for the basic needs of its “members”. This was once the case in earlier Canada when there were quite small, legally-incorporated villages and townships.....they had their own governance and tried to provide for the daily life of the community. Many had their own “community centres”. DM prefers a return to these types of smaller geographic LPU's, over the megalopolis city and regional government structures now so prevalent. The decentralization of society will be controversial and many devils will be in the details......but it can be done democratically by vote of the whole society on the final positioning....all must be satisfied that the new model of governance is implemented as intended.

2. The Locus of Control

The issue here is local control. We know that the larger the community, the less strong the link between elected representatives and the individual elector. The goal here is to keep control within the elector.....might some smaller units look at direct democracy over governing by “representation”?

3. Application to a Canadian Setting

Could there be a variety of types of LPU's? Let's look at Canada - Could a first nation be an LPU? What will be the case when in Northern Ontario, an LPU has a predominance of French-speakers and intends to develop a French culture in their community, as opposed to an Anglo one? What if in the Markham Ontario area, an LPU has a predominance of Chinese languages and intends to develop a Chinese culture in their community, as opposed to either an Anglo or French one? In the past Canada has seen these desires – The Quebec Independence Referenda; the First Nations aspiration for some type of “Intra-Canada Sovereignty”, embedded within the Canadian Constitution. In both cases, the smaller faction wished to have as much power as possible over the life of their membership.

The City of Toronto is Canada's largest city (2 3/4 million [2020] ) and capital city of the Province of Ontario. It is interesting to review its most recent evolution. It was a magnet and just kept growing. And the prevailing philosophy of urban planning was that bigger was better. So prior to its current structure (One large city), it was composed of six separate cheek-to-jowl cities: the smaller Toronto, North York, East York, York, Scarborough and Etobicoke. It is the DM observation of history that the residents of these smaller LPU's were satisfied, more or less, with the governing status quo. The change came because in the structure of the time, a higher level body (The Province of Ontario) had the power of decision re municipal structure within the province – amalgamation of the six municipalities into the current Toronto metropolis became a fact, despite opposition from lower down. The LPU's had no decision-making authority on this. In Ontario, municipalities of any size are “creatures of the province”.

A Power Shift

This is the problem DM is rectifying – that some higher body does not have the power itself, on its own, to make top-down decisions affecting the members of LPU's. Decisions will NOT be top down.

Decision-making power will flow from the bottom up. The higher level coordinating body formed by a number of LPU's will only have the jurisdiction which the lower LPU's forming it, give to it. The existence and funding of the higher body will most likely be time limited. It is a reflection of the Marxian principle that the worker should own the means of production, or , at least, manage it.......the power/decision-making is to be “at the bottom”.

A Global Perspective

In some ways, DM is fighting against globalization, against “The New World Order”. Is it possible that a global embracing of DM might lead to the “withering” of current Nation States? Could the world possibly function as a planet of villages (With only LPU borders)?

Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)

Original: 20/4/14
Author: Bob Armstrong, DMGI Coordinator/DMPO Leader/President

Recent Revision: 22/11/2 - Bob Armstrong

Endorsements: Democratic Marxist Party of Ontario (DMPO) – 23/10/5
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Copyright – Democratic Marxist Global Institute - 2020

[Bob Armstrong]

Democratic Marxism
(Started: 24/1/3)




Weekly Overview

Notes:

1. The “Weekly Overview” of the topic is posted for the benefit of new members who may have come in between the “Weekly Overviews”. It provides an executive summary of the issue for new viewers.
2. The Stats of participation are important to allow all to determine the extent of continuing interest. For thread originators/responders, they are important to see if the interest no longer warrants the labour. Or alternatively, they show that those of us discussing it are drawing in more participants, because they have begun to see the importance of our topic.

A. Statistics

Week # 2 (24/1 /8 – 14 [7 days])

(Sometimes Adjusted for no. of days)

A. Weekly Stats:
.....................................................2023 Average
Last Week's......Prior Week's........Views/Day
Views/Day........Views/Day.............(2 wks.)

…19........................19.......................19


................................................2023 Average

Last Week's.....Prior Week's......Responses/Day

Responses/Day....Resp./Day.......(2 wks.).

........2.......................1........................1


B. Analysis of Last Week's Stats

Last week's stats are showing a slow rise from when the thread started.

Goal of this Thread

• To make clear what Democratic Marxism is, and what it is not (Old-style USSR Communism)
• To provide materials that help CT'ers analyze the pluses and minuses of DM.

Additional Notes:

1. The goal of this thread is not to try to beat opposing views into oblivion. Political economy spans the spectrum. Every position is entitled to post as it sees fit, regardless of the kind of, and amount of, postings by other positions. What is wanted is serious consideration of all posts........then you decide among the many competing political philosophies.

2. I, Bob A, personally, as the thread originator, am trying to post a new response at least twice per week, but admit my busy schedule means I may sometimes fall short on this. So it is necessary that a number of other CT'ers post responses here somewhat regularly as well.

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[Bob Armstrong]

The Evolution of Democratic Marxist Theory

Democratic Marxism Discussion Paper # 2





Note: cyclically re-posted for the benefit of new DMGI members, DM-G viewers and DMGF members/viewers.



Fundamentalism

There is a tendency in man towards “fundamentalism”. This is because this life approach makes things very simple.

We take the thought of great thinkers, such as Karl Marx, and we determine that they have given the complete and last word on some system of thought. We spend hours labouring over and parsing each word to better understand “their” thinking........and it is true that many great writers choose their words carefully, and the words may exude multiple layers of meaning. So there is something very valuable in doing this.

But it should not end here! We live in a changing, evolving world – systems are not writ in stone; they too must adapt and evolve with the changing context.

The Power of the Status Quo

But what happens when a successor thinker comes along and pushes the envelope of the great thinker......or worse, challenges one of his/her basic tenets??

What happened to the Jewish prophet, Jesus of Nazareth? A traditional Jew, ordinary (Not a rabbi), suggests that the Old Testament God, Yahweh, is being mis-described; Yahweh is a God of Love, not of Fire and Brimstone!!??

The Establishment moved quickly to shore up the fundamentalist position of the status quo. Jesus was ridiculed, scorned, his credentials attacked (He is just a simple carpenter – his teachings are garbage), his “Misunderstandings” were belittled and undermined, with a final referral to civil authority (The Roman Governor, Pilate) to have him put to death.

Or.....Martin Luther – for his “misinterpretations”, he was forced to schism from the Catholic Church; he is not allowed to preach his thoughts from a Catholic Church pulpit! And the establishment labelled his new religion NOT in the direct line from Jesus!

After this we have many Protestants defying the fundamental theologies of Luther, leading to the plethora of current “Protestant Christian” religions.

Is this kind of change proposal a malignancy? Or has a caterpillar become a butterfly – metamorphosis? Aristotle, the great Greek Philosopher, would likely refer to this as a change in “substance”, not “accident”. It is like the time had finally come for an evolutionary leap! It is a desperately bad thing, when it is time, and fundamentalists shut the change down.

So what do we say about the deep thinking of Karl Marx (And Frederick Engels)?

Democratic Marxism – Pushing the Envelope?

Are we allowed to challenge that Marx's “withering away of the State” was an unrealistic, anarchistic, and Utopian view? That this concept has no connection to future realities?

We can take this idea, though, and revise it to refer to the withering away of big top-down government, on the implementation of a Democratic Marxist Government.

Do we dare call ourselves Marxist and suggest that all political power should rest in the Local Political Unit (LPU) so that it can care for itself to the maximum extent it can? And that the LPU will itself decide if and when it needs to cede some power to a higher coalition level of bureaucracy to achieve a desired result for a coalition group of LPU's (And this may be time-limited)?

In all this, we claim to remain true to the core principle of Marx, that labour must dominate capital, and be accurately valued, and that there must be worker control.

Conclusion

Democratic Marxism is NOT a “schism” from Marxism (Old-style USSR Communism was the “schism” and warping of the original position)! DM is a direct successor of the original life line drawn by Karl Marx.

So.....can we legitimately use Karl Marx' name in our “Democratic Marxism”? A resounding: YES!!


Democratic Marxist Global Institute (DMGI)

Author: Bob Armstrong, Interim Coordinator, DM Vetting Committee Interim Chair

Original – 20/4/15

Recent Revision: Bob Armstrong - 20/10/17

Postings (Most Recent) – DMGF - 22/11/8; 23/9/6

• • • Fb/TRN – 23/9/15
    • CT.DM – 24/1/17

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[Neil Frarey]

Special address by Javier Milei, President of Argentina | Davos 2024 | World Economic Forum

[Bob Armstrong]

Capitalism/Free Market

Disassembled!

"Neoliberalism is the disease which keeps on killing. But did you know the neoliberal economic gospel we live under today is a deliberate misinterpretation of the original theory?"

https://www.facebook.com/robert.gill...y_me&ref=notif

[From another CT thread]

Bob A (Dem. Marxist)

[Dilip Panjwani]

Capitalism/Free Market

Disassembled!

"Neoliberalism is the disease which keeps on killing. But did you know the neoliberal economic gospel we live under today is a deliberate misinterpretation of the original theory?"

https://www.facebook.com/robert.gill...y_me&ref=notif

[From another CT thread]

Bob A (Dem. Marxist)

Hey Bob,
This long rambling could be replaced by three sentences:
1. Of course there is a role for the government: it is the enforcement of the Natural Law.
2. Of course people abide by rules in any activity: these are minimal essential rules framed by and agreed to by the participants, not imposed upon by bureaucrats and politicians.
3. Of course monopolies are to be avoided: by scrapping stupid restrictive laws and ensuring access to capital, which would make ample competition possible.

[Sid Belzberg]

Javier Milei's full speech at the World Economic Forum

https://twitter.com/BowTiedMara/status/1747648419613569457

[Neil Frarey]

And when Javier Milei deregulated the housing market ... as in no more rent control ... the supply of rental units in Buenos Aires doubled and prices fell by over 20%.

[Bob Armstrong]

It is the dynamic of over-supply. This is just a low rent transition period, common after deregulation, Sid/Neil.

Demand for rental is there...........watch soon for the Demand to EXCEED supply..... what will happen then??

Rents skyrocket!..........wild west Capitalism/Libertarianism's motto: "Charge what the market will bear!"

Soon after.........Buenos Aires will have a homeless problem of mega proportions.

[Buenos Aires

The City of Buenos Aires is the capital of the Argentine Republic, located in the Southern Hemisphere of the American continent, at 34º 36' S and 58º 26' W. The city lies on a plain covering 202 square kilometers, with a population of approximately 3 million.

Gobierno de la Ciudad de Buenos Aireshttp://buenosaires.gob.ar › solarcities › conoce-buenos-...]


Let's see how long it is before the SHF!


Bob A

[Dilip Panjwani]

Demand for rental is there...........watch soon for the Demand to EXCEED supply..... what will happen then??

Rents skyrocket!




Bob A

That is what happens in a socialist over-regulated country like the Canada of the past decade!

In a Libertarian society, entrepreneurs anticipate demand, to be ready with the supply...

Poverty and Misery are the hallmarks of Marxism, not a free society.