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Hi Neil:
Another form of the Theist Community core belief # 1 (Post # 1):1. We are blessed to be, rather than not.
Bob AComment
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Let me take a shot at Dilip/Sid's Deterministic View of Life
1. The body, having what has been termed in the past as "Consciousness", is merely a DNA/Hormonal "machine".
2. It has a data base from which it draws information in making what appears to be a "choice".
3. In every identical choice situation, the same data will be drawn on, and the same "choice" made.
4. So the data used is the "cause"; the alleged "choice" is the necessary effect.
5. Thus human actions are always "determined". It is simple "Cause/Effect". There is no "choice", there is no arbitrary intervention in the process of what was previously known as "free will".
Is this simplification accurate enough?
If so, I'll try to make some intelligent response as someone who believes in "Consciousness/Free Will".
Bob AComment
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Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View PostI don't have that view at all. I mentioned that one of the explanations of entangled particles correlating with each other instantaneously, noOriginally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post
matter how far apart they are, is that they are not communicating with each other at all; they were preprogrammed to behave that way. Preprograming
at a subatomic level implies determinism, which I rejected, hence the alternative model I presented.
The rest of what you post regarding consciousness, etc, is nothing I have ever touched upon.
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Thursday, 29th February, 2024, 12:21 AM.Comment
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When you say: what has been termed in the past as "Consciousness", what do you mean?Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View PostComment
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You know what's most revealing with this bullsh*t thread???
When any of you are hard pressed up against a life threating crisis ... you will reach for God.
Each and every single one of you.
1. We are blessed to be.
...Last edited by Neil Frarey; Friday, 1st March, 2024, 01:55 AM.Comment
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Since when was exploring how nature works inconsistent with having a belief in God?Originally posted by Neil Frarey View PostComment
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Explore all you like, Sid. I do the same! Every moment of every day. Believe me .. I do.Originally posted by Sid Belzberg View Post
But at the end of the day ... we are blessed to be.
Comment
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I absolutely agree with that, Neil. I found this thread quite interesting. A big improvement over trying to argue with someone who believes that human nature will magically change and that Marxism will all of a sudden work, or that .04 percent of the atmosphere carbon dioxide somehow is a thermostat changing the weather, influencing the sun that is a hundred times larger than the earth or that mandating lethal injections after conning people into believing that a man-made virus that is no worse than the flu is somehow so deadly that small business destroying measures were needed.Originally posted by Neil Frarey View Post
It's interesting how a small group of elites and their puppet Marxist governments push all three bullshit agendas in addition to their insane obsession with "overpopulation." and trying to destroy the food supply, starving everyone to death the same way the great Marxist Stalin did during the destruction of Ukrainian farms in the 1930s.
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Friday, 1st March, 2024, 05:19 PM.Comment
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Yes! And your comments and Dilip's too are so very informative ... I've already been enlightened so much!! So, thanks for those!!
Hard to find to the true path, but the spark of freedom and compassion burns within us all. I hope that elected leaders such as President Nayib Bukele of El Salvador and President Javier Milei of Argentina are just the beginning ...
And may God bless Israel finding their way through their struggles too!!
.Last edited by Neil Frarey; Saturday, 2nd March, 2024, 01:50 AM.Comment
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The best attitude indeed, in times of crisis is: despite our crisis, we are blessed to be...Originally posted by Neil Frarey;
When any of you are hard pressed up against [BComment
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Consciousness & Free Will
Wikipedia
Consciousness, at its simplest, is awareness of internal and external existence.[1] However, its nature has led to millennia of analyses, explanations and debate by philosophers, theologians, and all of science. Opinions differ about what exactly needs to be studied or even considered consciousness. In some explanations, it is synonymous with the mind, and at other times, an aspect of mind. In the past, it was one's "inner life", the world of introspection, of private thought, imagination and volition.[2] Today, it often includes any kind of cognition, experience, feeling or perception. It may be awareness, awareness of awareness, or self-awareness either continuously changing or not.[3][4] The disparate range of research, notions and speculations raises a curiosity about whether the right questions are being asked.[5]
Examples of the range of descriptions, definitions or explanations are: ordered distinction between self and environment, simple wakefulness, one's sense of selfhood or soul explored by "looking within"; being a metaphorical "stream" of contents, or being a mental state, mental event or mental process of the brain.
My Belief
1. Animals have this life characteristic - humans seem to feel they have a higher level of it than other animals. Work with mammals (dolphins) by the military has established that they have "self-awareness", as separate from what they know through their senses. It would seem then, that likely all animals have this capability. I believe this may be the case with fish (Do we classify them as "animals"?).
2. I am unsure whether other realms of Earth life also have "consciousness" (Insect; Plant).
3. To be conscious, to me, does not necessarily mean that the "I" believes it can control itself, or anything external - i.e. that it can alter the natural cause/effect function to which it is subject. So being "conscious" does not, to me, necessarily mean that the living being has "free will".
4. If the above is true, then from whence have we humans, until recent advances in science, gotten the notion that the "I" is a "free will entity", that it has a psychological power to choose not to do what it is naturally programmed to do by the cause/effect function. It really can "choose". It is not just a deterministic machine, a puppet of its influencers.
5. Theists believe the concept of free will, comes out of religious belief, specifically the concept that some human actions are good, and some are bad. It is the religious issue of "morality". Religions believe that we are not just machines, and that a serial killer is just a person with a glitch in their normal program. Religion believes, outside of proven insanity, that people have the capability of "choosing".......that they can choose to be altruistic; that they can choose to cause pain to others.
6. Yet........it does not seem that all atheists believe that all human actions are "determined". They do not accept that there is no such thing as personal responsibility (i.e. Free Will). Some atheists argue that human responsibility for their choices comes directly out of the proper understanding, civilly, of "Human Nature". I will have to leave it to those CT'ers in this category, to take any explanation of "free will" (Non-Religiously) further.
Bob A (Member of the "Theist Community", a Religion)Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Sunday, 3rd March, 2024, 01:40 AM.Comment
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And what troubles me ... I'm creative, very creative. I create. And I feel ashamed to even use that term ... create. Such as, who the f'k am I to use that biblical expression which by its very nature implies bringing something into existence.
And BTW, Inventive and Creative are two entirely separate states of being.
Creativity can drive you to death, as it has done for so many creatives simply because of the 'deep need' to bring something fresh to life. Inventiveness is simply problem solving ... triggered by a something else.
.Last edited by Neil Frarey; Sunday, 3rd March, 2024, 01:37 AM.Comment
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AI can also choose, but no one attributes any free will to it. When Google's AI recently goofed, Google administrators put the blame on the woke scientists programming it, not on the AI itself, which, despite the fact that it keeps on 'learning' on its own, still functions as a cause and effect machine...Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View PostComment
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Question about what Life really IS
How many believe that behind our elected governments across the world, there is a "stronger force" influencing/directing their most substantial decisions/law-making?
Anyone care to post their speculation on the make-up of this "stronger, covert(?) force", if they think the answer to the above question is "Yes"?
Just wondering about how we are to view Life...........
Bob AComment
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