Nigel Short: Girls wired differently; not suited to play chess

[Bob Armstrong]

Moving Toward Elimination of the Parallel & Separate Women's Chess System?

Why is there even a separation of boys and girls (and men and women) in chess? Could it all be a political ploy orchestrated by FIDE and regional federations to create an artificial sweetener to attract more women / girls into chess (by not throwing those women / girls in with the wolves, i.e. the men / boys) in order to ramp up the game's sex appeal?

There are no other divisions in chess aside from the national ones of the Olympiad. There isn't a World Oriental Chess Champion, nor a World Homosexual Chess Champion, nor a World Left-Handed Chess Champion.

By the very fact that women / girls are separated from men / boys in chess, THERE IS AN INVITATION TO PEOPLE TO COMPARE THE TWO DIVISIONS. And that comparison may lead to any number of conclusions, some more or less scientific than others. Brains wired differently? Well, if you find that offensive and want to prove otherwise, perhaps you need to provide contrary evidence, such as comparing IQ tests of women / girls versus men / boys. I for one would not be surprised to find that such contrary evidence exists. But then again, I can easily believe that there are cultural influences in many societies that give advantage to men / boys in intellectual pursuits such as science, engineering, mathematics... and even chess.

I'd still like to see people debate whether women / girls are less athletic than men / boys because they don't do as well in football. That seems about as meaningful as this chess debate.

I see the day coming, and I think it is not that far off, when we will no longer need an entirely parallel and separate women's system, with separate women's titles.

Its past and current existence as an incubator system is legitimate.......the chess culture has not been friendly to women, to having them develop talent to the elite level, to having them participate in large numbers at the class level, due to many societal/cultural/discriminatory conditions. But the slow entry of women at both levels is increasing at a faster rate now. Soon there will be reached a sort of critical mass. Then it will start to snowball.

This does not mean I am against "Women-Only Tournaments". Women like to play against each other; they feel the tournament atmosphere is somewhat different than in a gender-neutral tournament, and they like it......so why would there not be such a tournament.....we have junior and senior tournaments to meet their multi-faceted chess needs. And there is no reason there could not be neighbourhood tournaments, much the way we organize national closed championships. All these are legitimate, and enhance chess, and make it more inviting to many.

Bob A

[Gordon Ritchie]

Re: Nigel Short: Girls wired differently; not suited to play chess

BTW, I can also attest to Nigel's driving skill. He took us through some towns in the Peloponnese with a couple of cms to spare on either side, even with mirrors in. No wonder Rea lets him handle the tight spots.

[Kerry Liles]

Re: Nigel Short: Girls wired differently; not suited to play chess

Tarzan and Jane stuff. Hunter and gatherer. Anything Nigel says which gives chess this much publicity can't be all bad.

It isn't the sort of publicity that is useful. Sort of like the lampooning chess took a while back (on the Daily Show?) about the U.S. trying to 'buy' Caruana from Italy...
All you see in the main stream media about chess are these sort of negative views (and a recent Toiletgate the Sequel doesn't help much either).

All this does is reduce interest in chess for what it is (once was).

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Nigel Short: Girls wired differently; not suited to play chess

It isn't the sort of publicity that is useful. Sort of like the lampooning chess took a while back (on the Daily Show?) about the U.S. trying to 'buy' Caruana from Italy...
All you see in the main stream media about chess are these sort of negative views (and a recent Toiletgate the Sequel doesn't help much either).

All this does is reduce interest in chess for what it is (once was).

Controversy seems to sell. The negative Globe and Mail article awhile back didn't seem to hurt the game. I've never bought their newspaper since so I guess it's hurt their circulation.

Fischer was colourful. Chess memberships grew after his match. Nobody really knew if it would even be completed. Then he didn't defend. The correspondence club pretty much tripled over those years.

Being well known is helpful in selling the game. People from all over Canada used to send me (CCCA) money for memberships. Sometimes only from a mention in one of the newspaper chess columns.

The game seems to have mostly lost regular newspaper columns in Canada and that is too bad.

There was a guy on the ICCF message board who used to make arguments similar to the one Nigel made. I bought his book on the Ponziani. Mailed him the money and he mailed me the book.

There are lots of interesting people in chess and a higher profile for the game has to be good.

[Dan Scoones]

Re: Nigel Short: Girls wired differently; not suited to play chess

Have any of the people who are sounding off about Nigel Short actually READ his article in the 02/2015 issue of New in Chess?
No... obviously not.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Nigel Short: Girls wired differently; not suited to play chess

I just noticed they have it on chessbase news. It's an interesting article.

[Nigel Hanrahan]

"has been known to be making sexist ... comments about women in chess for decades."

Have any of the people who are sounding off about Nigel Short actually READ his article in the 02/2015 issue of New in Chess? No... obviously not.

Susan Polgar has and her remarks were as follows:

His comments have been derided by female chess players, including the world’s first female Grandmaster, Susan Polgar.

“It doesn’t surprise me. He has been known to be making sexist and outrageous comments about women in chess for decades,” Polgar tells As It Happens host Carol Off. “What has been disappointing over all these years is his colleagues just ignore him. I’m just disappointed there isn’t more outrage from the chess community.”

GM Polgar: "Just imagine if Nigel Short would say blacks don’t have the brains to play chess; how crazy would that sound."

Polgar says she tries to ignore Nigel Short as well, but it’s becoming more and more difficult with all the media attention his comments generate.

What I've noticed here is that I don't see much in the way of comments from women in this thread. I think that's significant. I doubt very much it's because they're in agreement with Short's ugly remarks. I rather suspect it may be partly because they don't want to be a target themselves.

Am I the only one who thinks that a bunch of guys talking about the status of women is a joke?

[Stephen Wright]

Re: Nigel Short: Girls wired differently; not suited to play chess

I'm not sure, but I think the third sister, Sophia, also won the WWCC once? Anyone confirm this, and the year, and over whom (if my disaster memory is right).

In this day and age that sort of information can be quickly and readily found with a few keystrokes and clicks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%2...orld_Champions

[Stephen Wright]

Re: Nigel Short: Girls wired differently; not suited to play chess

It is unfortunate that the media seem to be confused between the two older Polgar sisters. Judit ... Susan ...

Judit is the youngest of the three.

[Jack Maguire]

Re: Nigel Short: Girls wired differently; not suited to play chess

I don't know if Evnika Saadvakass plays chess but I think my money would be on her in a boxing ring against any boy her age (:

http://usatodayhss.com/2015/7-year-o...tizing-workout

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: "has been known to be making sexist ... comments about women in chess for decades

Susan Polgar has and her remarks were as follows:



What I've noticed here is that I don't see much in the way of comments from women in this thread. I think that's significant. I doubt very much it's because they're in agreement with Short's ugly remarks. I rather suspect it may be partly because they don't want to be a target themselves.

Am I the only one who thinks that a bunch of guys talking about the status of women is a joke?

It could also be that they aren't reading Chesstalk or choose to remain outside of the irrational firing zone that Chesstalk sometimes becomes. It isn't just women that stay away from Chesstalk for that reason.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: "has been known to be making sexist ... comments about women in chess for decades

It could also be that they aren't reading Chesstalk or choose to remain outside of the irrational firing zone that Chesstalk sometimes becomes. It isn't just women that stay away from Chesstalk for that reason.

Nigel Davies pointed out this study which seems to suggest that almost all of the difference in male success is a function of participation rates of women versus men. In short if the two populations of male and female chess players have a similar standard deviation with respect to chess ability then men are going to have more representatives at the top because of the lower rate of participation by women.

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.o.../276/1659/1161

My non-scientific observations of chess participation are that at 10 years of age and younger there is not that much difference between boys and girls in ability or interest in chess. Chess clubs tend to be intimidating places for newcomers. It was very common for new people to be ignored or even be treated poorly. Most of us that stuck with chess kept coming back despite the occasional abuse. I have seen attractive young women chased out of the chess club by unwelcome attention. One of the reasons that Windsor has a strong junior chess scene is because John Coleman started children's chess clubs and classes to remove them from the environment at the local club which tends to discourage kids at the best of times.

[Caleb Petersen]

Re: "has been known to be making sexist ... comments about women in chess for decades

"my non-scientific observations of chess participation are that at 10 years of age and younger there is not that much difference between boys and girls in ability or interest in chess."

U10 girls all Canada-http://chess.ca/players?player_search_age=10&player_search_gender=F&player_search_membership=X&key=c2e7b5bb0ec8bb7e2aaf8a5516ca5387

U10 Boys all Canada-http://chess.ca/players?player_search_age=10&player_search_gender=M&player_search_membership=X&key=aea94dc1e6d1dd330cbc2c4a480934d6

Despite opinions I think we can all agree that we all want more interest in chess from both girls and boys and see it become more popular and that everyone should do their best to have the interest retained.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: "has been known to be making sexist ... comments about women in chess for decades

"my non-scientific observations of chess participation are that at 10 years of age and younger there is not that much difference between boys and girls in ability or interest in chess."

U10 girls all Canada-http://chess.ca/players?player_search_age=10&player_search_gender=F&player_search_membership=X&key=c2e7b5bb0ec8bb7e2aaf8a5516ca5387

U10 Boys all Canada-http://chess.ca/players?player_search_age=10&player_search_gender=M&player_search_membership=X&key=aea94dc1e6d1dd330cbc2c4a480934d6

Despite opinions I think we can all agree that we all want more interest in chess from both girls and boys and see it become more popular and that everyone should do their best to have the interest retained.

I am working with a larger sample size than that. Some of the "boys" appear to be girls. One of the girls is a former world champion (Harmony Zhu).

[Vadim Tsypin]

An old white male uses chess to denigrate women

"Member of European Parliament says women are ‘smaller, weaker, less intelligent’ and should be paid less."

"The 74-year-old then said there are no women in the top 100 world chess players."