As a TD, what would you do?

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  • #31
    Re: Re : Re: As a TD, what would you do?

    If the situation is spelled out in the rules, then follow the rules, if it is not, then the TD needs to use common sense. Opinions will differ as to what common sense dictates in this case, and so I do not believe that there is a right or a wrong answer. The decision of the TD should be respected, whatever it was. Arguments can be made for both sides of this debate. But the TD was the one there, doing the work, with the power to make the decision. I think it needs to be accepted in good faith, whatever the decision was.

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    • #32
      Re: Re : Re: As a TD, what would you do?

      As a player I have to disagree. If byes were not allowed, then it would negatively impact my enjoyment of playing in tournaments.

      1) Example 1: Our club just completed the Ron Rogers tournament, played over 7 Thursdays. I was only able to play in 4 of the 7 rounds. Of the three rounds I missed (work, daughter's birthday, illness), I notified the TD. If I hadn't done so, I would have been paired and forfeited, and someone else would have had to sit at a board for half an hour until my time had forfeited me, and gone home without playing. Personally, I would rather lose a well fought game than win by time forfeit against the same player.

      2) Example 2: For the Canadian Open this year I had a prior commitment for the opening round. If I could not get a bye for that round, then I would not have been able to play in it.

      In both cases, I played all my games to win, was delighted when I won, despondent when I lost. Every game mattered to me. That is why I play in tournaments, and there are many like me. It's not to win a prize. Indeed in several EOCA event I entered as an amateur, making me ineligible for a cash prize.

      Also, if the only motivation was to win a prize, then we would see a lot more players withdrawing when they get to a point where they were no longer able to catch the leaders (PS: I do know some players who do this, but they are few).

      So yes, running weekend Swiss style tournaments allows me to compete, and the issuing of byes allows me to enjoy more tournaments. Byes form a useful purpose in amateur competition.

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      • #33
        Re: Re : Re: As a TD, what would you do?

        Having rules in print can be detrimental to a tournament in the case where someone may find a slant on a rule which allows them to score an additional half point.
        The rule I use to the exclusion of all others is The Rule of good sportsmanship.
        I allow half point byes in all rounds where someone else is not victimized. Players can agree on a draw at any point before or during a game. However, at no point is a pre-arranged loss allowed - which might be contrived to increase the cash winnings of the two players combined. I would have to forfeit both players if that were to happen.
        I have had instances where the tourney leader cannot be caught and there is an odd number of players in the event thus necessitating a bye. In such cases I have offered the leader a 1/2 point bye in the last round and paired the rest with no forced bye.
        In all cases common sense and good sportsmanship prevails!

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        • #34
          Re: As a TD, what would you do?

          Originally posted by Hugh Brodie View Post
          The French Chesstalk has a discussion going regarding the results of an Active tournament in Montreal this past weekend.

          It was a 5-round, 1-day Swiss in two sections. In the Open section, a player had won his first two games, and then alerted the TD that he would not be able to play the last round and asked for a zero-point bye. Then the impossible happened - this player had a 4-0 score when he left, and no one caught up to him in the last round. He was awarded no prize money. (I think 1st place was $300)

          Crosstable: http://www.echecsahuntsic.com/automnal-2013.php

          The question arises: how does this differ from taking a zero-point bye in round 3 or 4 (or whatever rounds in which half-point byes are not permitted)? I recall something similar happening in a World Open (or similar US tournament), when the leader going into the last round received a zero-point bye (I think he requested it before round 1), and ended up winning the tournament. I believe he was awarded his prize money.
          If I'm reading the table correctly, a player who had 2 half point byes and I legitimate bye won prize money. 3 byes in one 5 round event and is awarded prize money.

          If they are allowing byes and giving prize money to one player the rules should probably be the same for all the players.
          Gary Ruben
          CC - IA and SIM

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          • #35
            Re: As a TD, what would you do?

            In this case the law was an ass. The player deserves the first place prize. Small claims court, anyone?

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            • #36
              Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: As a TD, what would you do?

              Originally posted by Felix Dumont View Post
              But if the arbiter is convinced that the game was pre-arranged (i.e. a grandmaster that is checkmated in 5 moves), he can definitely disqualify either one or both players.
              Actually this never happens. I even remember when two masters drew in round 3 with each other without even bothering to sit and put pieces on the board. They shook hands while away from the board, wrote their result on the score sheet and left the playing hall. There was a "penalty" though: each player received a ½-point bye and had to play each other again in round 4. The result: another quick draw, and no penalty.

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              • #37
                Re: As a TD, what would you do?

                I don't know about the legal part you're suggesting. I'm only commenting on the apparent lack of consistency in allowing the byes to one and not another..

                It's important for a TD to give the same conditions to all the players.

                Who directed that event and made that decision?
                Gary Ruben
                CC - IA and SIM

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                • #38
                  Re: As a TD, what would you do?

                  LOL
                  In my 5 round Saturday Rapid tournament, anyone can request FIVE 1/2 point byes after having paid the entry fee. You don't even have to show up! I hope a hundred people do so. The prize fund will be augmented accordingly and those who actually play will all benefit financially!:o And of course as TD my director fee will be somewhat higher with over 100 participants.
                  Last edited by Vlad Dobrich; Friday, 1st November, 2013, 02:43 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: As a TD, what would you do?

                    Originally posted by Felix Dumont View Post
                    Yes, they are written up. Chess in Quebec receives a considerable support from both private sponsors and the government. It is important that both the organizers and the FQE look serious. A good way for that is to have complete rules. Most of the rules are the same as for FIDE, but there are additional rules for local tournaments (that cover cases not covered by FIDE rules or give more liberty to arbiters). As for most sports/leisures with government support, a sportsmanship charter exists for Quebec chess players. It is clearly stated that no game should pre-arranged (in which case one would definitely be disqualified). We can't force someone to play a "full game" of chess. But if the arbiter is convinced that the game was pre-arranged (i.e. a grandmaster that is checkmated in 5 moves), he can definitely disqualify either one or both players.
                    Didn't Kasparov lose one of his games against Deep Blue with a blunder on the 9th move? Kasparov played on, but it was unanimously agreed that he was lost from the 9th move. So would you consider this precedent, and make 9 the "magic number" minimum moves that a GM must play before resigning or being mated? And if a GM gets mated in 8 moves, s/he is disqualified? You'd better put that in print before inviting GMs to your tournaments.
                    Only the rushing is heard...
                    Onward flies the bird.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: As a TD, what would you do?

                      As for most sports/leisures with government support, a sportsmanship charter exists for Quebec chess players.
                      too bad there's not a similar charter for TDs to use some common sense.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Re : Re: As a TD, what would you do?

                        1) is a Quebec rule but 2) is not. Not only can a player can ask for a 0 point bye at any moment but furthermore, the arbiter is under obligation to grant this kind of bye unless the rules of the tournament forbids it or it is a round robin tournament. Apart from round robin tournaments, norms tournaments are the only type of Quebec tournaments in which the players are forbidden from asking a one point bye. Quebec rules does not define tournament withdrawal, it is far from clear that asking for a 0 point bye in the last round is indeed a withdrawal. If the last round zero point bye is requested after the penultimate round, it is clearly a withdrawal in disguise. If it is requested at another time, you could argue that it is not a withdrawal.

                        Originally posted by Felix Dumont View Post
                        Here are all the rules in question (applicable to all tournaments in Quebec):

                        1) A player who withdraws cannot win money (except in a force majeure situation).
                        2) A player can ask for zero point byes before the start of the tournament and will therefore be eligible for prizes.

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