If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Policy / Politique
The fee for tournament organizers advertising on ChessTalk is $20/event or $100/yearly unlimited for the year.
Les frais d'inscription des organisateurs de tournoi sur ChessTalk sont de 20 $/événement ou de 100 $/année illimitée.
You can etransfer to Henry Lam at chesstalkforum at gmail dot com
Transfér à Henry Lam à chesstalkforum@gmail.com
Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
General Guidelines
---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
Some Basics
1. Under Board "Frequently Asked Questions" (FAQs) there are 3 sections dealing with General Forum Usage, User Profile Features, and Reading and Posting Messages. These deal with everything from Avatars to Your Notifications. Most general technical questions are covered there. Here is a link to the FAQs. https://forum.chesstalk.com/help
2. Consider using the SEARCH button if you are looking for information. You may find your question has already been answered in a previous thread.
3. If you've looked for an answer to a question, and not found one, then you should consider asking your question in a new thread. For example, there have already been questions and discussion regarding: how to do chess diagrams (FENs); crosstables that line up properly; and the numerous little “glitches” that every new site will have.
4. Read pinned or sticky threads, like this one, if they look important. This applies especially to newcomers.
5. Read the thread you're posting in before you post. There are a variety of ways to look at a thread. These are covered under “Display Modes”.
6. Thread titles: please provide some details in your thread title. This is useful for a number of reasons. It helps ChessTalk members to quickly skim the threads. It prevents duplication of threads. And so on.
7. Unnecessary thread proliferation (e.g., deliberately creating a new thread that duplicates existing discussion) is discouraged. Look to see if a thread on your topic may have already been started and, if so, consider adding your contribution to the pre-existing thread. However, starting new threads to explore side-issues that are not relevant to the original subject is strongly encouraged. A single thread on the Canadian Open, with hundreds of posts on multiple sub-topics, is no better than a dozen threads on the Open covering only a few topics. Use your good judgment when starting a new thread.
8. If and/or when sub-forums are created, please make sure to create threads in the proper place.
Debate
9. Give an opinion and back it up with a reason. Throwaway comments such as "Game X pwnz because my friend and I think so!" could be considered pointless at best, and inflammatory at worst.
10. Try to give your own opinions, not simply those copied and pasted from reviews or opinions of your friends.
Unacceptable behavior and warnings
11. In registering here at ChessTalk please note that the same or similar rules apply here as applied at the previous Boardhost message board. In particular, the following content is not permitted to appear in any messages:
* Racism
* Hatred
* Harassment
* Adult content
* Obscene material
* Nudity or pornography
* Material that infringes intellectual property or other proprietary rights of any party
* Material the posting of which is tortious or violates a contractual or fiduciary obligation you or we owe to another party
* Piracy, hacking, viruses, worms, or warez
* Spam
* Any illegal content
* unapproved Commercial banner advertisements or revenue-generating links
* Any link to or any images from a site containing any material outlined in these restrictions
* Any material deemed offensive or inappropriate by the Board staff
12. Users are welcome to challenge other points of view and opinions, but should do so respectfully. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Posts and threads with unacceptable content can be closed or deleted altogether. Furthermore, a range of sanctions are possible - from a simple warning to a temporary or even a permanent banning from ChessTalk.
Helping to Moderate
13. 'Report' links (an exclamation mark inside a triangle) can be found in many places throughout the board. These links allow users to alert the board staff to anything which is offensive, objectionable or illegal. Please consider using this feature if the need arises.
Advice for free
14. You should exercise the same caution with Private Messages as you would with any public posting.
I am a techie but the tooth is not likely used for cheating in this case. It is also possible that the exact apparatus and mechanism is not the same each time.
Yes. That's really the problem, isn't it? This has been going on for months and months and nothing is being found. Just guessing at what is "not likely" and what is "possible".
If the man was 6 foot 5 and could lift 100 kilograms I doubt anyone would call him a cheater. It's reached the point where I think this is happening simply because some Neanderthals realize they can do it and get away with it.
The CFC should be insisting to FIDE that anyone cheating should be caught in the act and the method being used explained. It's not good enough for some patser to claim because someone a few hundred rating points below him won, there must be cheating.
Some Canadians go to Europe and shred the field of higher rated players.
Yes. That's really the problem, isn't it? This has been going on for months and months and nothing is being found.
Actually that is not really the case. In the latest instance they did find something which induced Ivanov to withdraw from the tournament rather than risk further exploration of what exactly was found. The organizers solved the problem that they were facing and once their problem was solved they stopped trying to find exactly what was going on. The problem with this approach is that the can gets kicked down the road a bit and everyone has to start again at point zero the next time Ivanov enters a tournament.
Just guessing at what is "not likely" and what is "possible".
If the man was 6 foot 5 and could lift 100 kilograms I doubt anyone would call him a cheater. It's reached the point where I think this is happening simply because some Neanderthals realize they can do it and get away with it.
The CFC should be insisting to FIDE that anyone cheating should be caught in the act and the method being used explained. It's not good enough for some patser to claim because someone a few hundred rating points below him won, there must be cheating.
Some Canadians go to Europe and shred the field of higher rated players.
I don't think he would get a free pass if he was 6 foot 5 inches. Most guys that size can lift more than 100 kilograms.
Actually that is not really the case. In the latest instance they did find something which induced Ivanov to withdraw from the tournament rather than risk further exploration of what exactly was found.
That makes for a nice story BUT why did they pay him back his entry fee and 50 Euros in compensation if the compensation part is correct? I wouldn't mind knowing if a waiver was signed in return for the "compensation", if it was in fact paid.
They had nothing to show for the search and the tournament was gifted to the player who was given the free point by forfeit. A wrecked tournament. Those who lost out as a result must be wondering about the timing of the forfeit. The search and running the tournament were both bungled.
Please don't cry me a river that a proper search could not be done. What kind of an arbiter would start a process he could not complete and then proceed as if he had been successful?
Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec
It would appear that whatever he is using is something that moves around. In the shoes at times, under the armpit at other times on his back at others.
You wrote the above in a previous post. Tell me what moves around to so many places? Exactly what is it the player who complains wants the arbiter to find? This before the game even starts.
Is the CFC doing anything to instruct those who run events in Canada how to handle such complaints? What to do if a player wants a woman searched? Who knows where they claim the item will be moving.
That makes for a nice story BUT why did they pay him back his entry fee and 50 Euros in compensation if the compensation part is correct?
Boris didn't have enough money to get home and the TD gave him money out of his own pocket because he felt sorry for him. Apparently this line of work is not very lucrative if you can't collect the prizes.
I wouldn't mind knowing if a waiver was signed in return for the "compensation", if it was in fact paid.
Not according to the TD.
They had nothing to show for the search
Did you read the same articles that I did? It seems to me that they did find something in the search.
and the tournament was gifted to the player who was given the free point by forfeit. A wrecked tournament. Those who lost out as a result must be wondering about the timing of the forfeit. The search and running the tournament were both bungled.
Please don't cry me a river that a proper search could not be done. What kind of an arbiter would start a process he could not complete and then proceed as if he had been successful?
The kind of arbiter that thought Ivanov was cheating and then didn't want to see violence done once Ivanov chose to withdraw instead of submit to an examination of the strap and device that they found.
You wrote the above in a previous post. Tell me what moves around to so many places? Exactly what is it the player who complains wants the arbiter to find? This before the game even starts. [/QUOTE]
If Ivanov would sit still then we would find out. Given his suspicious behaviour and the discovery of unexplained devices on his person the burden of proof is clearly now on Ivanov. I would not let him play in a tournament without first submitting to a search.
Is the CFC doing anything to instruct those who run events in Canada how to handle such complaints? What to do if a player wants a woman searched? Who knows where they claim the item will be moving.
You bring up a very hypothetical situation. If a player wants a woman searched he will have to learn to live with disappointment. No one is going to subject himself to an assault charge on behalf of a hypothetical player.
FIDE has since received the following letter from Bulgarian chess federation:
Bulgarian chess federation would like to inform you that Borislav Ivanov has
been excluded from Bulgarian Chess Federation with decision of the Board of
Bulgarian Chess Federation on 08.12.2013.
So, if the Ivanovian one isn't a member of the Bulgarian Federation, and no other country accepts his application for membership, is he effectively prevented from playing competitive chess? That would be a wishy-washy way out ... but, given FIDE's willingness to create some anti-cheating policy in time for the next major meeting, perhaps not unexpected.
Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.
So, if the Ivanovian one isn't a member of the Bulgarian Federation, and no other country accepts his application for membership, is he effectively prevented from playing competitive chess? That would be a wishy-washy way out ... but, given FIDE's willingness to create some anti-cheating policy in time for the next major meeting, perhaps not unexpected.
If anyone can understand spoken Bulgarian, here is a lengthy interview on Bulgarian TV with Ivanov, dated yesterday? This station seems to have taken great interest in the story. It almost seems as if Ivanov is preparing to take legal action against the Bulgarian chess federation:
There is also some written Bulgarian on this site, and I put it through Google Translate:
"Infamous chess federation ruled on the grounds that undermine its prestige
"I will seek redress in court. This is an extremely personal insult. Give me no longer to be called Bulgarians." So infamous chess player Borislav Ivanov commented on the decision of the federation to turn it off.
Motives are seven, and among them are that reputation of the federation, notorious Bulgarian state and denigrate native chess. In its decision, the Federation refer to the results in the search engine Google, which extend in writing the name of the chess player. Arguing with his refusal to sit on the lie detector.
Borislav define arguments as entertaining and emphasized that the results in Google does not matter.
Federation declined to comment on the case. Chess expert Vladimir Petrov said in the studio of "Good Morning, Bulgaria", that there are gaps in the behavior of both sides, but the arguments of the Federation are frivolous.
"Trusting the versions promoted by the media and by people at home and abroad. To date, no case in which Borislav be caught in a scam. Having no doubts enter another area," he said, adding that the failure of Chess player to sit on the polygraph is not a violation.
Options available to Borislav now not many. The decision of the Federation is not entitled to pigeonhole into any Bulgarian team has no right to participate in national and international tournaments.
I am forced to change my nationality, almost said the young man and said he will seek redress in court. He has already won the case against the Federation for a four penalty which expired in September."
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
While the elite players are refusing to engage Ivanov in battle, chess amateurs have welcomed him as a cult hero. Dozens of chess forum threads are now devoted to analysing his games and investigating his tactics. In one thread, titled "Cheating is our religion and Ivanov is our god", fans rallied around the Bulgarian.
"I'm officially an Ivanov worshipper from now on. I don't understand all the hate that he gets. You people ought to love him. He is a true legend. [He is] the man who never got caught," one user wrote on the chess.com forum. "I support Ivanov!" another user roared. "I hope he is out from this issue fast! We all know he didn't cheat."
Wow. Talk about "ethically challenged". One commentator makes the following insightful remark ...
Originally posted by anon
Goes to show that decency,honour and honesty are taboo in the present world and young people are poorly brought up and think that they can just cheat their way through life. Shame on such brats - they contribute to make the world we live in, a poorer place. As for superbrat Kasparov, if he gets elected as FIDE president, it is only going to encourage such behaviour.
In the Comments section there are a number of interesting letters. I shall just quote two:
- You don’t necessarily need to catch the device or Ivanov cheating himself to convict him, sometimes some kind of “body of evidence” is enough for the jury. One might render it as "method of concordant indicia" or "method of concordant pieces of evidence". The method consists of assembling, like in a jigsaw puzzle, pieces of evidence supporting a particular legal theory concerning an issue. Each piece of evidence is by itself not determinative of the issue, it only points to a rebuttable presumption, but once each piece of evidence (indicium) is assembled into a coherent body of evidence, the latter, taken as a whole, will tend to prove the issue on some standard of proof (balance of probabilities or beyond a reasonable doubt).
That being said, you still need a fair trial (e.g. Sebastien Feller’s case).
- A comparison could be made with a case I read about (sorry, no source) where someone (in The Netherlands) was convicted for illegal arms possession, because he had a baseball bat in the back of his car. He was not a member of a baseball club and couldn't give names of people he played with. He had no reasonable explanation for having the bat in his possession, so the assumption that it was intended to function as a weapon was reasonable. In Ivanov's case, there was a contraption under his clothes and he didn't want to disclose what it was or let it be investigated. Then it's reasonable to assume it was illegal in purpose.
It's not necessary to involve the police in cases like this. Compare it to an insurance case: sometimes a company thinks it reasonable to assume a claim is not to be trusted, and won't pay out. It's then up to the client to start a procedure, which he will not risk when he really did bend the rules. Here also, Ivanov is free to start a civil case to get compensated. Somehow, I don't think he will.
Tweet
Comment