Trouble in the Ukraine

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  • Trouble in the Ukraine

    Trouble in the Ukraine

    I have been watching the events in the Ukraine this last week with some concern. It seemed to me that there were parallels with the Sudetenland Crisis in 1938. Germany demanded the annexation of the Sudetenland and the military occupation of the territories to protect the German-speaking population.

    The occupation in Crimea by masked and armed soldiers was not a big news item the first few days. Nobody was killed. A man in one interview I heard said he didn’t care who governed him as long as there was no bloodshed.

    There was virtually nothing in the chess press.

    Chess-news.ru has two tweets from Natalia Pogonina:

    A lot of us are concerned that Ukrainians, especially ethnic Russians, will be discriminated against under the new order. It is so already

    and

    So sad to hear this “intervention”, military aggression” and “annexation” Cold War nonsense..

    Teymor Rajabov tweets “I understand that ignorance is a bliss, but you can’t stop watching news when something like Ukrainian crisis is going on. Venezuela too”

    Chess-news.ru is surprisingly liberal. Today they had a story about Ukrainians in the tournament in Cappelle la Grande.

    http://www.chess-news.ru/node/14808

    Ukrainian GM Evgeny Dolukhanova explained their point of view, “We are in these days, of course, very concerned about the situation in Ukraine.

    We read the news and call back to our loved ones. The idea to play today with small flags painted on our cheeks occurred spontaneously. We sat all morning discussing the situation at breakfast, what would happen next. We wanted to do something somehow to express what is happening with the introduction of Putin forces into the Ukraine.

    We are against war and for the preservation of the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

    All the players painted a flag on their left cheek and posed for a group picture.
    _______
    I have visited Emil Sutovsky’s Facebook page but found it hard to understand his reference to Sergei Karjakin. Sergei was born in Simferopol, Ukraine and now represents Russia. I imagine he feels very conflicted at the moment.

    Where is Kasparov in all this? In the Washington Times:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...obama-admin-r/

    Mr. Kasparov has voiced his opinions on the Ukraine crisis via twitter frequently over the last week, drawing comparisons between Putin’s Russia and Nazi Germany.

    “So far, the Kremlin & Kremlin stooges in Ukraine are following that same 1938 script. Talk of ‘protection,’ ‘peace,’ ‘self-determination,’” he tweeted on Thursday.

    A few minutes later he added, “Putin has little choice but to act in Ukraine. Dictators, without legitimacy of elections, must regularly show their power.”

    Mr. Kasparov has also used social media to urge the U.S. and other western powers to intervene in Ukraine.

    On Thursday he tweeted: “West will have to act on Ukraine eventually. Question is how long, as price will keep going up. Post-Syria credibility is very low.”
    ________
    The Candidates starts soon. Sergei Karjakin is one of the participants. Anand, Topalov, Mamedyarov and Aronian are the other non-Russians. Do any of them feel strongly enough about the situation to withdraw? I wonder. Is it conceivable that Ilumzhinov would ever postpone the tournament?
    _______
    I apologize for introducing politics into this forum again but I thought it important to acknowledge the situation we are in now.

  • #2
    Re: Trouble in the Ukraine

    Garry Kasparov had an eloquent interview (at times a little strident) with Maria Bartiromo on FOX Business News yesterday around 10:00am. Alas, Most/All Canadian Cable Companies do not carry FOX Business News, but, maybe one can find it on their website.

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/index.html

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Trouble in the Ukraine

      Kasparov interview on CNN
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ud-Cz3kn1w

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Trouble in the Ukraine

        Originally posted by Wayne Komer View Post
        to acknowledge the situation we are in now.
        What becomes obsolete the next hour with all trash going from both sides.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Trouble in the Ukraine

          Originally posted by Egidijus Zeromskis View Post
          What becomes obsolete the next hour with all trash going from both sides.
          Considering Russia supplies things like fuel for the Americans nuclear reactors I don't expect much to happen.
          Gary Ruben
          CC - IA and SIM

          Comment


          • #6
            Civil strife in Ukraine (not "the Ukraine" please!!)

            The best thing would be if both the USA and Russia (and the EU and ... ) actually worked together to help the Ukrainians who, with $145 Billion in debt and $35 Billion coming due, are going to be in the same situation as Greece within a year. Maybe one of those billionaires appointed to the new regime in Kiev can donate part of their fortune to help the country. [sarcasm alert]

            I'd also be curious, since I'm no fan of the neo-liberal views of Garry Kimovich, how he manages to square the circle by supporting a regime in Kiev that has just passed anti-minority, anti-Semitic laws against non-Ukrainian minorities in the country. Not just anti-Russian but anti-Tatar, anti-anything-but-ethnic-Ukrainians. Mind you, his views can't be any worse than those of Mikhail Saakashvili, former President of Georgia, whose wisdom (solicited by CNN btw) in these matters consists of having attacked Ossetian minorities in his own country back in 2008 and who, therefore, would be full of good advice for similar-minded officials in Kiev. [biting sarcasm alert]

            What a mess. Depending on how chaotic things get, even the upcoming elections, Crimean referendum, etc., could be undermined by conflict if it is escalated.

            Supplemental: It's "Ukraine" not "the Ukraine". The latter virtually indicates a province of Russia, something that people who post here should reject.
            Last edited by Nigel Hanrahan; Tuesday, 4th March, 2014, 06:56 PM. Reason: "the Ukraine"
            Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Civil strife in Ukraine (not "the Ukraine" please!!)

              In general, we can say that Mr.PUTIN makes his own moves on the big chessboard of this world only.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Civil strife in Ukraine (not "the Ukraine" please!!)

                The following open letter appeared today at: http://chess-news.ru/node/14825

                Chess composers of Ukraine appealed to the president of Russia demanding an end to the occupation

                Wednesday, 05/03/2014

                "We, the Ukrainian chess composers living in different cities of Ukraine , appeal to the Russian President to immediately end the occupation of our country on false grounds. Russian television channels are deliberately distorting the facts , writing and translating unimaginable stories about Russian oppression in Ukraine , picturing simple Russian and Ukrainian citizens as zombies . But no one of us ever in Ukraine is oppressed . We regard the invasion of Russian troops in our country only as an act of unwarranted aggression, an occupation, which violates the basic principles of international law.

                Let's " fight " only in the fields of chess , not sacrificing soldiers and civilians , but only chessmen .
                We ask our colleagues from Russia and other countries of the world to join our protest against the looming threat of peaceful existence and welfare of the people of Ukraine.

                Alexander Semenenko , Honored Master of Sports of Ukraine (Dnepropetrovsk)
                Valery Semenenko , Honored Master of Sports of Ukraine (Dnepropetrovsk)
                Yuri Gordian , Honored Master of Sports of Ukraine ( Odessa)
                Sergey Tkachenko , Honored Master of Sports of Ukraine ( Odessa)
                Valery Kopil grandmaster Ukraine (Poltava region)
                Vasily Krizhanovsky, International Master of Sports (Cherkasy region).
                Andrew Frolkin , International Master of Sports (Kiev)
                Vladimir Pogorelov, International Master of Sports ( Poltava region).
                Anatoly Vasilenko, International Master of Sports (Kiev)
                Anatoly Karamanits FIDE master (Dnepropetrovsk)
                Oleg Paradzinsky , master of sports of Ukraine (Kherson region).
                Sergey Tkachenko, the master of sports of Ukraine (Kiev )
                Mark Basisity , master of sports of Ukraine (Kiev )
                Anatoly Moysienko (Kiev)
                Vitaly Shevchenko (Kiev)
                Ivan Soroka International Grandmaster (Lviv region)
                Victor Cole , International Master of Sports ( Kiev region).
                Peter Nowicki , (Kiev region)
                Fedor Kapustin ( Zaporizhia region).
                Michael Gershinsky Master of Sports of Ukraine , Donetsk region)
                Nicholas Chernyavskii , Candidate Master of Sports of Ukraine (Lviv region)
                Edward Eylazyan , master of sports of Ukraine , FIDE champion of Ukraine (Donetsk)
                Vladimir Samilo , master of sports of Ukraine ( Kharkiv )
                Alexander Dashkovskiy ( Cherkasy region )
                Alexander Derevchuk (Dnepropetrovsk) "


                I would have thought that the letter shows a simple honesty about the "occupation".

                A comment by a reader in reply says: A handful of little-known composers, drugged by the Ukrainian media, wrote a letter that no one will read. These people do not speak well, have incomplete information and are engaged in self-promotion.


                I think, at the moment, the EU is meeting to try and sort this out.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Civil strife in Ukraine (not "the Ukraine" please!!)

                  ..................................
                  Last edited by Gary Ruben; Saturday, 8th March, 2014, 12:52 PM.
                  Gary Ruben
                  CC - IA and SIM

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Civil strife in Ukraine (not "the Ukraine" please!!)

                    You might also be interested in the situation in Canada regarding the government position on UDI. Unilateral Declaration of Independence by Quebec.


                    http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c...supreme-court/
                    Gary Ruben
                    CC - IA and SIM

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Civil strife in Ukraine (not "the Ukraine" please!!)

                      Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
                      You might also be interested in the situation in Canada regarding the government position on UDI. Unilateral Declaration of Independence by Quebec.
                      Every country is also unique. That's why they're all valuable. In the case of Crimea, it was part of the Russian Empire, then the RSFSR, and then (after one ethnic Ukrainian by the name of Nikita Khrushchev changed the status of Crimea after the death of Stalin) became part of Ukraine. Imagine if Quebec was once part of the 13 Colonies (pre-USA) and then became part of Canada thanks to some political leader. Quebec might then: a) stay part of Canada; b) become independent; or c) join the USA. All would be reasonable options (ceteribus paribus).

                      Right now it looks like a Referendum in Crimea is going to decide things, which is probably a bad thing. The rhetoric from Washington, Brussels, Paris, Ottawa, etc. will get ratcheted up, with more threats, and so on. I see the Crimean legislature has even moved the date for the Referendum forward: first, from late May to late March, and now from late March to mid-March. When your mother tongue (Russian) gets banned as a language you can use in relation to government, all bets are off. And the Kievan Rada did just that with virtually their first legislative action of the new regime.

                      Just look at Quebec; the language issue by far was the most contentious when the PQ was elected for the first time and passed the language law. And yet it had the most support from Francophone Quebecers.

                      Each time I look at this question it gets more complicated. What's clear is that sabre-rattling, threats, violence, unilateralist actions, etc., are just stoking the fires of conflict. And Ukraine needs problems solved, not new ones created.

                      Supplemental development: Russian President Putin has said that Crimea joining the Russian Federation is "out of the question". Interesting. I wonder how the media will spin that.
                      Last edited by Nigel Hanrahan; Thursday, 6th March, 2014, 02:36 PM. Reason: recent development
                      Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Civil strife in Ukraine (not "the Ukraine" please!!)

                        Those who argue Canada is divisible have to realize Quebec is also divisible. Montreal and Northern Quebec might not be interested in separation.

                        That's why I find the governments stance on the Ukraine interesting.

                        BTW, let's not forget it hasn't been that many years since the U.S. was bombing nations back to the middle ages and they are still looking for the weapons of mass destruction.
                        Gary Ruben
                        CC - IA and SIM

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Civil strife in Ukraine

                          Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
                          Those who argue Canada is divisible have to realize Quebec is also divisible. Montreal and Northern Quebec might not be interested in separation.
                          The main division in Quebec would be over the First Nations. Any other division is mostly a construct which is intended to implode any talk of Quebec separatism.

                          The whole thing is moot in Canada. I don't think Quebec has the needed majority if there was another vote. Unless, of course, some provocation took place.

                          That's why I find the governments stance on the Ukraine interesting.
                          What's even more interesting is how they can support a Ukrainian "revolution" while denying it elsewhere.

                          BTW, let's not forget it hasn't been that many years since the U.S. was bombing nations back to the middle ages and they are still looking for the weapons of mass destruction.
                          John Kerry's recent remarks were astonishing in this regard. I can imagine a reporter bursting out in laughter when s/he hears the following:

                          He went on to repeat the assertion on Meet the Press, keeping a straight face as he told host David Gregory: ”You just don’t invade another country on phony pretext in order to assert your interests.”
                          Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Civil strife in Ukraine

                            March 5, 2014

                            There is an extremely long and interesting discussion about the events in Ukraine among Alexei Shirov, Vladimir Belov, Mikhail Golubev and Yevgeny Sidorov:

                            http://www.chess-news.ru/node/14821

                            They imply that Sergei Karjakin wants the peaceful annexation of Crimea by Russia. They say they are not morally entitled to invite Sergei, nor any of the other participants in the Candidates, which starts soon. They are not up to such topics at the moment.

                            The discussion is followed by three pages of readers’ comments, which are remarkably free and apparently uncensored.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Civil strife in Ukraine

                              Wayne, I'm a simple chess player. I leave these matters to the world leaders and the young men they send to fight their wars.

                              Fortunately, in 1949 Britain recognized the referendum which allowed Newfoundland and Labrador to join Canada. You must realize the vote was not unanimous.
                              Gary Ruben
                              CC - IA and SIM

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