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Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Re : Executive Election Voting - When ?
Okay, I am having trouble following this. Maybe it's just me. There's a lot of threads and it's late.
Has it been revealed on ChessTalk that:
1) There was an agreement linking the CFC endorsement of KI to the FIDE donation? Or that these things are totally unrelated?
2) The donation is from FIDE, or from KI personally, or from ...? Does KI have to win for the CFC to get the donation?
3) There is something in writing that a lawyer has seen that would stand up in court if the donation is "payback" for the endorsement?
BTW, if the CFC endorsement is being traded for the donation then that sounds like a bribe (in the general sense) to me. Doesn't make it illegal; a parent might bribe their kid with dessert to get them to clean up their room, for example. Call it quid pro quo if you prefer.
I don't see how without answers to these questions (which maybe are on the CFC Governors' forum?) anyone could cast their vote intelligently. Maybe that's why people aren't voting?
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
"but I have not seen any firm commitment to any specific amount of funding. I also find it distasteful that Mr. Belzberg's position is essentially "Support my friend Garry and I'll give you a bunch of money; nothing if you support KI." His motivation seems to be much more centred around KI v. GK than around supporting Canadian chess."
Here's the thing Mr Douglas.
You may find it distasteful that I will not support the CFC if it supports KI but I have outlined on these forums in painstaking detail why I consider it a moral outrage to support such a man. My money, my opinion. If the choice was between my friend Garry and say a neutral candidate like Olfasson (past FIDE President) i would not be as fussed about it.
Sorry if you find that distasteful
"although "titillating".)
Me too!
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Wednesday, 9th July, 2014, 12:29 AM.
"but I have not seen any firm commitment to any specific amount of funding. I also find it distasteful that Mr. Belzberg's position is essentially "Support my friend Garry and I'll give you a bunch of money; nothing if you support KI." His motivation seems to be much more centred around KI v. GK than around supporting Canadian chess."
Here's the thing Mr Douglas.
You may find it distasteful that I will not support the CFC if it supports KI but I have outlined on these forums in painstaking detail why I consider it a moral outrage to support such a man. My money, my opinion. If the choice was between my friend Garry and say a neutral candidate like Olfasson (past FIDE President) i would not be as fussed about it.
Sorry if you find that distasteful.
Maybe my point wasn't as clear as it could be. I completely accept that you have no use for KI. Your reasons are your reasons and there's nothing wrong with that. There is also nothing wrong with you choosing, as a personal issue, to not support anything remotely related to KI. What you choose to do with your money is your own affair.
What I find distasteful is your attempting to use the court of public opinion to "bribe" the CFC executive the other way while at the same time saying that they are corrupt because they are accepting a "bribe" from KI.
In the course of doing so, you have made the KI v. GK issue paramount in this Executive election when, in my opinion, it should be very low on the priority list.
Okay, I am having trouble following this. Maybe it's just me. There's a lot of threads and it's late.
Has it been revealed on ChessTalk that:
1) There was an agreement linking the CFC endorsement of KI to the FIDE donation? Or that these things are totally unrelated?
2) The donation is from FIDE, or from KI personally, or from ...? Does KI have to win for the CFC to get the donation?
3) There is something in writing that a lawyer has seen that would stand up in court if the donation is "payback" for the endorsement?
BTW, if the CFC endorsement is being traded for the donation then that sounds like a bribe (in the general sense) to me. Doesn't make it illegal; a parent might bribe their kid with dessert to get them to clean up their room, for example. Call it quid pro quo if you prefer.
I don't see how without answers to these questions (which maybe are on the CFC Governors' forum?) anyone could cast their vote intelligently. Maybe that's why people aren't voting?
Reference to bribery deleted.
1. Yes, things are related.
2. Good question, I am pretty sure I have seen on pro-Kasparov sites statements that FIDE is using money from its own budget, to make such promises.
3. That has not been disclosed to the governors, and I agree that this is very important information to make an intelligent vote.
Last edited by Nigel Hanrahan; Wednesday, 9th July, 2014, 11:18 AM.
Reason: potential libel
I'm going to quibble and/or ask some questions based on what you've said. I was originally going to do a long-winded (naturally) questionnaire for several of the candidates. Maybe I can keep this brief....
His plan is essentially a set of pie-in-the sky goals. He has been quite reticent or vague on *how* he is going to achieve them.
I would use the strategic plan that was developed and the recent Windsor experience which is accelerating despite some setbacks. Any plan aiming to increase members requires people on the ground to run tournaments and perhaps teach chess. If we passed a rule that every voting member had to run one tournament a year we would see a significant jump in tournaments and memberships.
What exactly is this? I don't think he's ever said exactly what his business experience is.
I have run small businesses, worked in small businesses and large companies. I've been a controller, a writer, an electronic technician, a programmer, a software specialist for an industrial controls and automation software and electrical products distributor (which involved technical sales and tech support for automation software and sometimes hardware), a system analyst in a large automotive company which involved working with computers and PLCs (programmable logic controllers) and developing HMI (human machine interfaces and web pages to display data from PLCs including environmental data and databases to aggregate and store information to display it in a more meaningful format), a computer consultant an IT coordinator and a chess coach. I've also briefly been a soldier, a karate instructor, a team captain and helped a little girl's software team win the championship.
If the Kasparov Chess Foundation is an entity that only supports those who support Kasparov's political aspirations (FIDE or otherwise), then it is a shallow organization in my opinion.
In my opinion this should be the most important consideration: how did he do in his first term?
I would agree with this. :)
Agreed.
Agreed again. While I can understand the frustration, there have been a few cringe-worthy comments that have been less than presidential.
I am more interested in advancing my agenda which is to make Canadian chess more like Windsor chess (only better because you'll have stronger players doing it rather than chess dummies like me).
This essentially mans that the selection of president should be (as Lyle Craver put it) a referendum on the choice for FIDE president where "none of the above" is not a realistic option.
That would be strange but stranger things have happened in Canadian chess politics.
I'm not certain how one can say that the majority of chess players were alienated. A ChessSquawk poll is essentially the same as opening a "trouble-maker's letterbox" and marvelling at the various ways people can refer to self-copulation. To my knowledge there is only one sponsor who is currently feeling alienated.
The players in Southwestern Ontario were not alienated. I received a great deal of support from the people following this debate and have received very supportive emails and phone calls from across the country. I may have occasionally been a jerk here but not being a jerk to the kids and parents pays off which I wish everyone in the CFC would make an article of faith.
For the record, I would have likely chosen a quiet vote for KI (given that an abstention is a pyrrhic do-nothing statement). I'm personally not crazy about the endorsement.
There was some link to a CFC strategic plan that looked realistic to me.
It is quite realistic if we could find time to actually apply the things that it suggests. It probably could use an update.
I have serious concerns about the ability of Mr. Starr to do the job for the reasons I've outlined above. One of the points that Gary Ruben made in his endorsement of Mr. Vrkulec is that consistency is something that is desired. If Mr. Vrkulec has done a good job, why should he be ousted in favour of somebody promising pie in the sky and accusing everybody who disagrees with him of skullduggery? And why should the CFC president be ousted because of the Executive's endorsement of a candidate in the FIDE election when the other candidate has similar warts of his own?
Unfortunately his warts are much worse.
I haven't made too many promises because I know what is realistic. There will be crises pop up at the most inopportune time. I have been building networks of people in the last few years mostly organizers, parents and coaches and some of them have already started to pay dividends in increased activity. I think the office will consume less of my attention this term. Bob is experienced and great with getting things done without any need for nagging. There won't be any life or death issues like the NFP act (I hope). I'm not promising smooth sailing but smoother sailing.
If any of the people I've mentioned in this ramble choose to reply, could you *please* keep it brief and on-point?
Steve
Thank you for your post.
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Wednesday, 9th July, 2014, 01:35 AM.
What I find distasteful is your attempting to use the court of public opinion to "bribe" the CFC executive the other way while at the same time saying that they are corrupt because they are accepting a "bribe" from KI.
All well and good but what specific "bribe" did i offer? THat I won't touch anything to do with KI and that is true.When one gives a bribe they usually profit from or get something back in return. In the past i never got anything in return other then the joy of seeing young players like Bluvstein and Charboneau develop as chess players and as human beings.
The only difference here is that i asked for a favor for a friend (first time i ever asked the CFC for anything) and initially everything was fine. Anyways you want to believe I did something "distasteful" that sounds like a rationalization of supporting someone who made a bad mistake. I am not entitled to speak in public and express and defend my views?
The court of public opinion is not something I control. If the CFC gets lousy publicity it is not like i can snapped my fingers and they suddenly appeared on page 1 of the Globe and Mail. i made it abundantly clear early on that this is political hot potato and i was right. The CFC has no one but itself to blame for the court of public opinion.
I feel like you are so brain washed and misled that I am talking to someone from the Flat Earth Society.
Originally posted by Originally Steve DouglasView Post
What I find distasteful is your attempting to use the court of public opinion to "bribe" the CFC executive the other way while at the same time saying that they are corrupt because they are accepting a "bribe" from KI.
All well and good but what specific "bribe" did i offer?
Sponsorship of the CFC. I think I've made that fairly clear in another post in this thread. My view is based on your own statements. As I said, it's a carrot. We don't know exactly what or how big the carrot is because you have avoided saying, except in vague terms.
Anyways you want to believe I did something "distasteful" that sounds like a rationalization of supporting someone who made a bad mistake.
I am supporting the right of the CFC Executive to make this decision. It's your view that the decision is a bad mistake.
I am not entitled to speak in public and express and defend my views?
Please. You can say in public whatever you want. I saw your public statements and formed the opinion I stated above. You haven't said much to change that view.
I feel like you are so brain washed and misled that I am talking to someone from the Flat Earth Society.
The "debate" between Vlad and Robert Hamilton quickly got derailed by both sides into a mostly meaningless squabble.
Steve
That debate was the last best chance this entire election had to get straightened out and become not a "he said, he said" back and forth, but instead a civil discussion of the issues. But who was the first one to derail it? It was Vlad Drkulec. And this is very important: people are saying how difficult a time Sasha has dealing with others. But I have seen that Vlad has more of a problem with this than Sasha does.
We have seen some anger from Sasha. But Sasha's anger is different from Vlad's. Sasha's anger is triggered by a sense of wrong-doing. Vlad's is triggered by a sense that he can't mentally dominate someone. We saw that with Robert Hamilton: Robert was winning points against Vlad, and Vlad just said enough of this, and posted this crap:
Robert Hamilton: "I was talking about Sid in the context of being the biggest patron in Canadian history."
Vlad Drkulec: "He is certainly the biggest something in Canadian chess history."
Robert Hamilton: "Sid is a very humble man who is Canada's biggest patron of all time. For you not to know this and to have to go check details is alarming. For you to publish against him is even more alarming."
Vlad Drkulec: "He doesn't seem very humble to me. He seems very self entitled and given to arguments lacking in logic."
Do you see what this is? This is an anger management problem. Vlad sees he is not dominating Robert, rather the opposite is the case, and boom, off goes Vlad on this angry put-down of Sid. That is a REAL problem for someone who wants to lead a very troubled chess federation.
Whenever Vlad's 'Dale Carnegie' methods to win friends and influence people don't work on someone, Vlad turns on that someone and treats them like sh*t. This happened very early on with Vlad's dealings with Sid. Vlad is antagonistic by nature, we all saw that in the climate change threads.
For the voting members who haven't yet voted, even if you just want to forget all this Garry / Kirsan / Sid / Sasha stuff, let me put the vote in a different context for you:
Do you want a leader who will start angrily putting people down when they don't do exactly what he wants? Mark my words, that's what you're going to get with Vlad Drkulec.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
Re: Re : Re: Re : Executive Election Voting - When ?
There is a lot of wrong-doing going on.
The executives had clearly have crossed the line. They believe the best they can deal with it is that I would lose the election. What they don't understand is that I am here to stay, will not go anywhere, and will get to the bottom of it, whether elected or not. The relevant information will be released soon.
Re: Re : Re: Re : Executive Election Voting - When ?
info from Kevin Spraggett's Blog: "Stan Vaughan, WCF president and holder of the World Championship title, let it be known publically yesterday that his WCF had won a federal court lawsuit against FIDE. Readers of this blog might want to refresh the details of this case. When pressed for specifics, Stan was very helpful:
”To try to make this as simple as possible FIDE loses all 6 USA trademarks cancelled for fraud".
Since FIDE was simply a rico controlled organization controlled through vote bribery by Ilyumzhinov and did not have legal status in Switzerland as FIDE is not incorporated anywhere in the world, unlike WCF, they had paid a Norwegian lawyer Morten Sand to be a shill registering trademarks and falsely saying that Morten Sand was owner of all trademarks and filing an intent to use in future application to use said trademarks. However Sand is now Kasparov and Sinquefield’s legal advisor".
Re: Re : Re: Re : Executive Election Voting - When ?
Dear Voting Members!
As you know, CFC is in a mess, Membership is going down, and I'm trying really hard to help it.
Here are the issues:
1.decrease of the membership;
2.absence of sponsorship and inability of current leader to raise funds for chess and CFC;
3.absence of plan for raising funds for any of the programs;
4.lack of tournaments with IM and GM norms to nurture the talent;
5.no partnerships or collaboration with other federations, even with the neighboring USCF.
We can build together the vibrant and prosperous organization.
I've offered my help, and if elected, will bring quickly all required resources to start improving things.
CFC is due for a change, the status quo is no longer acceptable. Please help CFC, please help the future of Canadian chess, please help yourselves!
Last edited by Sasha Starr; Wednesday, 9th July, 2014, 11:44 AM.
You are missing a very important point. By endorsing KI CFC has chased away the biggest sponsor of chess in Canada as well as any hope to have a deal with Kasparov Chess Foundation. And without money CFC will slowly deteriorate... And all that's done in exchange for what?
While the CFC owes a great deal to Sid for his past donations and sponsorship, what he is currently doing is no better than the Kirsan regime. He seems to be promising to become a sponsor again if we were to endorse/vote for Kasparov, which is just ...
I am against both sides trying to use monetary rewards to get the vote they want. I only want what is best for the chess world, and I am convinced that Kasparov would be a better leader than Kirsan (still flawed I would have preferred Karpov, but he had even less of a chance to win).
Reference to bribery deleted.
Last edited by Nigel Hanrahan; Wednesday, 9th July, 2014, 11:19 AM.
Reason: potential libel
If you idiots don't stop making reference to bribery as though it has already been proved in court, I will simply close this thread. You are grown up people and you can make your arguments without making libel an issue for this Discussion Board.
signed,
p*ssed off Moderator.
Last edited by Nigel Hanrahan; Wednesday, 9th July, 2014, 11:37 AM.
Reason: signed
Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.
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