Winding down the CFC and FIDE elections

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

Now I'm studying very carefully what's actually happened. Until then I can't really comment on what will be my next move.

Sasha: in one of your posts (it would take a long time for me to find it now), you mentioned something to the effect that the CFC was required by the NFP act to notify all its members of any 'newsworthy events', and that keeping the $80K offer from Kirsan confidential on the governors' private forum violated that requirement.

If you know that requirement of the NFP act to be a fact, you might not want to pursue that any further as it could lead to something as bad as the forced dissolution of the CFC. But even if you don't bring it to the attention of the government, you may wish to let ordinary CFC members know that this NFP act violation (if that is what it amounts to) was willfully undertaken by the Executive.

Did they actually risk the entire future of the CFC just to keep this Kirsan offer hush hush? OR... is there no such requirement in the NFP act?

I only mention this because you brought it up. I do not want something as bad as the forced dissolution of the CFC. In any event, I do hope that you keep asking about where is the actual written offer, and was it vetted by a lawyer. I also hope you as a voting member keep track and find out if the CFC ever gets a sniff of this $80K.

I also noticed in this thread Steve Douglas asked Vlad Drkulec if he could now provide details of this offer. Steve, if you're reading this, one of your better posts. Much better than just calling someone a troll when all they are doing is either making good points or asking good questions. Keep it up! Maybe your appointment as Vanguard of the Old Boys Network was something you needed! :D

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Winding down the CFC and FIDE elections

While the NFP file played a role I am sure that the improvements in youth chess have helped.

Perhaps the CFC can be renamed CCFC: 'Children's Chess Federation of Canada'.

Normally I would be against such a putting-all-your-eggs-in-one-basket approach. Normally I would say you should balance efforts in youth chess with efforts in increasing CURRENT adult membership (not FUTURE adult membership).

But normal times aren't going to last much longer. The CFC is in danger of becoming a feeder system to a much better federation... a federation much more attuned to the 21st century.

You may have won the battle, Vlad, but the war is just beginning. It is to be a war for the minds of chess players around the world. And you don't stand much chance, because you have the ball and chain of FIDE and all its corruption and inflexibility. And you also have the additional ball and chain of the traditional North American attitude about standard chess.

I don't know if you fully understand what I'm talking about, but you will. You are doing great getting kids into chess, and please do keep that up. I need kids getting into chess, especially when I don't have to do anything myself to make that happen. I know that the kids will eventually realize the limitations of standard chess. You say you don't know why anyone would try my 'chess variant', but the term 'chess variant' is totally inadequate to describe what is coming. I'm not so misguided as to thing people are going to go gaga over something as rudimentary as my Option Chess variant (which is meant to eventually extend standard chess). But it's ok if you keep thinking in those terms, because for all your ego, you are not seeing the real war you are soon to be faced with.

Yes, I'm a believer in my own hype just as you are with your words and thoughts about youth chess. You really do believe the future adult membership will be grown from the kids playing chess right now. A very faulty strategy even if I weren't doing anything -- the CFC has no future because standard chess has no future. But what I am adding assures the total collapse of this strategy.

I would have worked with you if you had shown flexibility, openness, and fairness. Instead you dismiss someone of the business stature and chess interest of Sid Belzberg, almost like swatting at a fly. Canadian chess will suffer for it, and you dismiss it like 'oh, that's fine, we have other sponsors'. I'm shocked Jean Hebert hasn't interjected, asking you at the very least where are these other sponsors and what are they doing (Hebert has so far been eerily silent on this whole mess, even on the part about the secret $80K deal with Kirsan).

But after your treatment of Sid, I will not work with you at all. Go ahead, laugh. I look forward to seeing that laugh turn into something cognizant of just what you are up against and how quickly your world can be turned upside down.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

Sasha: in one of your posts (it would take a long time for me to find it now), you mentioned something to the effect that the CFC was required by the NFP act to notify all its members of any 'newsworthy events', and that keeping the $80K offer from Kirsan confidential on the governors' private forum violated that requirement.

Sasha appears to be confused. A publicly traded corporation is required to make notifications of such a nature under some circumstances. There are no similar requirements for a non-profit that I am aware of and I have read the act and most of the government publications and websites that deal with the NFP Act. Any breach of the NFP act will not automatically lead to dissolution of the CFC.

If you know that requirement of the NFP act to be a fact, you might not want to pursue that any further as it could lead to something as bad as the forced dissolution of the CFC. But even if you don't bring it to the attention of the government, you may wish to let ordinary CFC members know that this NFP act violation (if that is what it amounts to) was willfully undertaken by the Executive.

Sasha should be more concerned whether his willful multiple violations of confidentiality requirements might not lead to his removal as a member.

Did they actually risk the entire future of the CFC just to keep this Kirsan offer hush hush? OR... is there no such requirement in the NFP act?

If I were a betting man, I would bet on the latter.

I only mention this because you brought it up. I do not want something as bad as the forced dissolution of the CFC.

Lets deal with reality and not fantasy.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Winding down the CFC and FIDE elections

Perhaps the CFC can be renamed CCFC: 'Children's Chess Federation of Canada'.

That would certainly make it easier to regain charitable status or some equivalent.

Normally I would be against such a putting-all-your-eggs-in-one-basket approach. Normally I would say you should balance efforts in youth chess with efforts in increasing CURRENT adult membership (not FUTURE adult membership).

The two are not mutually exclusive. I have been told that Windsor now has a normal complement of adult players relative to the rest of the CFC as a result of initiatives for youth -adult tournaments which we recently began.

But normal times aren't going to last much longer. The CFC is in danger of becoming a feeder system to a much better federation... a federation much more attuned to the 21st century.

Paul, I would suggest if you hope to establish your federation you need to do something about it and not just talk about it. Whatever the inadequacies of the CFC are, I am doing something to address them and at the same time I am doing things to grow Windsor chess which feeds into the CFC and the USCF scene in Michigan.

You may have won the battle, Vlad, but the war is just beginning.

Yes I can see that from the Kasparov people voting as a block to stop Windsor from hosting CYCC despite submitting an initial bid that meets all the requirements and despite being the only bid. I hope cooler heads will prevail. The CFC is in a much better position to deal with a missing CO bid if it has the CYCC squared away with a solid bid.

It is to be a war for the minds of chess players around the world. And you don't stand much chance, because you have the ball and chain of FIDE and all its corruption and inflexibility. And you also have the additional ball and chain of the traditional North American attitude about standard chess.

Now you are just being silly. Your product hopes to piggyback onto traditional chess. You need a thriving chess scene for your product to have even a hope of succeeding. The market for your product is a small subset of the general chess playing public. You seem to be more concerned with posting on chesstalk than you are with actually doing something which might actually advance your agenda.

I have undertaken two major projects at the CFC. One was developing a strategic plan for the CFC and the other was the NFP Act compliance process for the CFC. Both were daunting tasks. Both were accomplished by working logically step by step and getting a series of tasks completed. A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Have you even taken the first step?

Yes, I'm a believer in my own hype just as you are with your words and thoughts about youth chess. You really do believe the future adult membership will be grown from the kids playing chess right now.

By definition, yes.

A very faulty strategy even if I weren't doing anything -- the CFC has no future because standard chess has no future.

The future is what you make it.

But what I am adding assures the total collapse of this strategy.

Cue maniacal laughter.

I would have worked with you if you had shown flexibility, openness, and fairness. Instead you dismiss someone of the business stature and chess interest of Sid Belzberg, almost like swatting at a fly.

Sid's offers came with strings attached the most notable being the nomination and endorsement of GK and the requirement that GK win the FIDE election. Later the offer changed and after the fact the offer has morphed into something that is no longer recognizable as the option that we were given.

Canadian chess will suffer for it, and you dismiss it like 'oh, that's fine, we have other sponsors'.

We do. In fact, yesterday I received a $500 donation for Windsor chess from a long time Chesstalk poster who prefers to remain anonymous. The funds will be used either to establish a chess class for kids or fund a tournament for kids. The way we manage to squeeze pennies it may even be possible that it will allow us to do both. These are exciting times for Windsor chess.

Even if we don't get the bid for the CYCC we will probably support the bid of whoever does at a rate greater than any other community including that of the host assuming we can smooth over the backlash that may develop. There may even be advantages of not getting the bid as we can channel the energy of the organizers and potential sponsorship that seemed likely to develop out of a successful bid to local initiatives and needs.

I'm shocked Jean Hebert hasn't interjected, asking you at the very least where are these other sponsors and what are they doing (Hebert has so far been eerily silent on this whole mess, even on the part about the secret $80K deal with Kirsan).

But after your treatment of Sid, I will not work with you at all. Go ahead, laugh. I look forward to seeing that laugh turn into something cognizant of just what you are up against and how quickly your world can be turned upside down.

Talk is cheap. You can talk and talk and talk but can you walk the walk?

[Sid Belzberg]

Re: Winding down the CFC and FIDE elections

"Later the offer changed"

Yes, the point being that it was very clear that the offer had no strings attached by the time it was submitted to the governors for a straw Poll. So your point is irrelevant and appears to be a lame excuse.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Winding down the CFC and FIDE elections

"Later the offer changed"

Yes, the point being that it was very clear that the offer had no strings attached by the time it was submitted to the governors for a straw Poll. So your point is irrelevant and appears to be a lame excuse.

That was a point of discussion among the governors so yes you are right on that.

[Sasha Starr]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

Hi Sasha:

I was a governor then. Think that was a face to face AGM meeting in Edmonton? My memory is bad.

Anyway, there will be AGM Minutes in the archive - likely accessible through the CFC Website? But don't know whether they will answer your question.

I myself, I'm afraid, have no recollection about the FIDE Presidency issue, except that there was almost unanimity to vote for Karpov.

Hope I haven't got the facts too badly mixed.

Bob A

Thank you, Bob. Lets assume that there were no offers to CFC in 2010 and CFC gained nothing by voting for Karpov.

1.How, at what point, CFC (Executives, Governors, or both) has made up its mind to vote not on the merit of quality of individual contender (there is no comparison, and polls and popular opinion clearly show that), but instead of on whatever offer is higher?

2.Lets assume that monetary values of the offers were similar. But how could you compare the quality and credibility of the offers made by honorable people and organizations on the GK's side and FIDE's offer (it is well known fact that FIDE has made different offers in the past and did not deliver anything)?

3.By publicly endorsing KI CFC has accepted FIDE's unconditional offer, WIN OR LOSE - whatever the offer is: FIDE or KI or whatever, am I right?

4.If yes, when FIDE will transfer the first installment of the $$$ promised?

5.Who will be responsible for the $$$ if KI will lose the election? KI personally?

Sasha Starr.

[Bindi Cheng]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

5.Who will be responsible for the $$$ if KI will lose the election? KI personally?

Sasha Starr.

I think it's safe to say that #5 will not be an issue

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

Vlad, considering the AGM is now online rather than face to face at the Canadian Open, is there any way to change it to Sept. or Oct.?

July and August are prime chess months with the kids events, Olympiads, Canadian Open, Quebec events and so forth. Big chess months.

The message boards are filled with election stuff which is a distraction from the game. I'd rather be reading about chess.

Give the chess players and spectators a break! Do the elections in the off season.

[Erik Malmsten]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

It is a bitter pill for me to swallow just as well.

Unfortunately it is one of the cases when democracy has miserably failed. Two highly motivated people were able to succeed in spite of the fact, that the large majority of people here have supported GK (remember President's poll here: 1 for KI, almost 30 for GK); and on the other poll, the Governors' poll, 66,67% of votes were against endorsement of KI. Well, both of these polls, even Governors, were deemed non binding. So the public opinion was ignored, the wishes of the Governors were neglected. The fact remains that Five Executives, being motivated/induced or whatever else by the President and FIDE rep, have delivered endorsement of KI (two of them have abstained).

I agree that this is the most disastrous decision of CFC ever.

Only after the endorsement was publicly announced I've decided to contest the Presidency of CFC - just to provide an alternative. I'm not upset by the election's results.

Now I'm studying very carefully what's actually happened. Until then I can't really comment on what will be my next move.

The MOST??? Really? So everything done by the CFC in the past 70 years was great? Not sending a women's team to the Olympiads? The battles with Chess Canada, FQE, and CMA? The selling of the CFC house and office? The lack of CFC presence in all schools, TV and the press? The lack of a GM development program? The only small amount of government and corporate funding (mainly Alberta/Quebec)? The declining adult membership over the past 12 years? (Stuff way before Vlad and his confrontational attitude was involved).

Whoever Canada votes for at every FIDE election in history has had only a small affect on chess in Canada. If you want to help chess you have to become a successful local organizer like Vlad has in Windsor. When we see how great your organizing results are, then you'll be in fine shape to become President. Focussing on investigations into past executive decisions is time and energy wasting, not a way forward.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

Vlad, considering the AGM is now online rather than face to face at the Canadian Open, is there any way to change it to Sept. or Oct.?

I don't know about making it quite that late. It might fit in August better than July particularly with some of the requirements on the financial statements which weren't ready until the day before the meeting. I think we should really consider shortening it as well. This would have gone on for another week if we had held to the original idea. Five weeks a year of online meetings plus special meetings. Who comes up with these ideas?

July and August are prime chess months with the kids events, Olympiads, Canadian Open, Quebec events and so forth. Big chess months.

we snuck the meeting in just before CYCC.

The message boards are filled with election stuff which is a distraction from the game. I'd rather be reading about chess.

Give the chess players and spectators a break! Do the elections in the off season.

We could but then everyone would be complaining that I am a Machiavellian dictator. Oh wait. They already are. Well at least one or two of the Kasparov supporters are.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

This may be the very last time I am going to address you for some time. While attending CYCC and CO I plan to cleanse all thoughts of you out of my mind and I will not waste any time responding to you as I will concentrate on CFC business and helping the Windsor kids do their best at CYCC and then playing in the Canadian Open and playing in a higher section than my recent play warrants.

If you want to be taken seriously you will take to heart the advice Erik gave you. Teach a kid or adult how to play chess and get involved. If you continue to violate confidentiality of the governors forum you will effectively destroy it as a method of conversation between the executive and voting members. The executive will stop using it and will become more secretive by necessity. I have a number of remedies including limiting your access to the governors forum which we can both agree will not be the best way to allow you to function as a voting member. As a voting member you don't have the right to damage the reputation of the CFC and I know what you will say but the voting members have had their say and the overwhelming positive responses from CFC members and FQE members suggests that your interpretation of reality is somewhat suspect. Nobody but you and Sid and maybe Garry want to continue to discuss this and Garry will be out of the loop within a month. He will face reality and move on. Judging from how he responded to Hal Bond thwarting him with respect to the Canadian Candidates match I have probably earned an enemy for life in GK which is a pity as I admire him as a player and writer. I am a nobody. The king should not spend so much time thinking about and dealing with an annoying pawn such as myself.

It is a bitter pill for me to swallow just as well.

Unfortunately it is one of the cases when democracy has miserably failed.

Democracy has worked fine. Your approach has failed. It was an epic fail.

Two highly motivated people

Who work tirelessly as volunteers for the CFC.

were able to succeed in spite of the fact,

that Sasha wanted a different outcome.

The fact remains that Five Executives, being motivated/induced or whatever else by the President and FIDE rep, have delivered endorsement of KI (two of them have abstained).

I was persuaded by the executive discussion and my later investigations that Kirsan was the better candidate.

I agree that this is the most disastrous decision of CFC ever.

I highly doubt that.

Only after the endorsement was publicly announced I've decided to contest the Presidency of CFC - just to provide an alternative. I'm not upset by the election's results.

Now I'm studying very carefully what's actually happened. Until then I can't really comment on what will be my next move.

Instead of dwelling on your past defeats I would suggest that you do the job that you were elected to do which is to work towards the best interests of chess in Canada and work on your street cred which is currently lacking.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

I think it's safe to say that #5 will not be an issue

Some people once thought it was safe to say the Titanic was unsinkable.

I think it is safe to say the Executive will never release details of this 'offer', including what would happen should Canada endorse KI (a done deal) BUT KI lose the election.

I think it is also safe to say Bindi Cheng should never be given a position of financial responsibility.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

As a voting member you don't have the right to damage the reputation of the CFC...

Is this provision actually written up in the CFC bylaws or handbook or whatever passes for official CFC policy?

I think there have been quite a few voting members violating this "policy" right here on ChessTalk. Lots of CFC bad-mouthing going on, and deservedly so.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

There are provisions in the NFP act which deal with this. A discipline bylaw was written into the CFC bylaws in part based on the default law. The governors at the time wanted a discipline bylaw so there is now a bylaw which could probably be used to remove Sasha as a voting member simply based on his recent behaviour. Repeated violations of the confidentiality requirements would be grounds to remove him from the point of the NFP act and the CFC's bylaw. Of course, Sasha is not the only one guilty of such violations as there were instances before Sasha was granted access with Sasha making reference to confidential disclosures by Hal Bond on the governors forum and Sid Belzberg making use of revelations from an anonymous governor.

To put things in context the current bylaw is nowhere near as draconian as the defeated proposed code of ethics put forward previously which would allow the executive to initiate removal of governors for simply disagreeing with a decision of the governors. I prefer not to exercise the directors authority in this area if at all possible.

We could simply look at all deliberations of the voting members being in public. This would not be unprecedented and at the least it would provide the public with full context of any business discussed.