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Garry too seems to be bitter; see his summation statement ...
There is no acknowledgement to the winner, as is normal in such a contest, Kasparov stated his wish (in hindsight) that he did not try to win votes with his speech but instead wished that he had tried to heap shame on the delegates, etc.. (just imagine the contempt he would have had as a reply!) and his shallow vision of FIDE, even now, as no more than a commercial enterprise would turn FIDE into stratospheric, IOC levels of corruption were it to succeed. What a disappointment.
The remarks had all the graciousness of a poor sport, wallowing in self-pity. If he runs again, then he will lose even more badly. The caravan has moved on.
Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.
"You and the senior members of the Kasparov campaign assured us that Garry was going to win. It didn't happen and the election played out much as everyone who was less emotionally invested in the outcome expected it to. In general it is better to deal with reality in an objective manner instead of expecting it to conform to what we want it to be."
All well and good to say that however, we offered support unconditionally regardless of who wins the election and I made sure that was made clear before the final decision was made. Mig has even gone so far as to offer support despite your support for the crook. Instead of being involved in truly great things like Sinquefeld's tremendous efforts you chose to take a very small minded approach for chess in Canada. The sad part is that it is not only the CFC's loss but it is a loss for chess players in Canada and especially the youth. I love the game and I will continue to support chess but I will never support the CFC's involvement with crooked Kirsan. I am more surprised and disappointed then bitter at the extent of corruption that exists within many Federations and yes very surprised and disappointed that the CFC would want any part of this. No doubt you will have some smart alec reply and dissect every sentence like you always do. Have a nice life.
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Thursday, 14th August, 2014, 03:08 PM.
There is no acknowledgement to the winner, as is normal in such a contest, Kasparov stated his wish (in hindsight) that he did not try to win votes with his speech but instead wished that he had tried to heap shame on the delegates, etc.. (just imagine the contempt he would have had as a reply!) and his shallow vision of FIDE, even now, as no more than a commercial enterprise would turn FIDE into stratospheric, IOC levels of corruption were it to succeed. What a disappointment.
The remarks had all the graciousness of a poor sport, wallowing in self-pity. If he runs again, then he will lose even more badly. The caravan has moved on.
Indeed, I also had the same reaction about the remarks, but perhaps that is Kasparov's nature - every conversation, every issue is an epic battle as if it was on the chess board! Perhaps that is a chess player's worst nightmare: the inability to see the real world as different from the chess board. Analogies are fine as far as they go and if they don't go far.
I acknowledge Garry Kasparov as a super talented chess player (perhaps greatest of all time) but I do not see leadership qualities in him. He has no shortage of passion, but perhaps is lacking a lot in managerial and team building skills.
Indeed, I also had the same reaction about the remarks, but perhaps that is Kasparov's nature - every conversation, every issue is an epic battle as if it was on the chess board!
Kasparov's anachronistic cold war politics may get him the privilege of highly paid fluff pieces for the WSJ, and the affection of other, like-minded cold warriors, - especially when we are in the middle of a highly orchestrated Russophobic campaign by NATO states and their mostly captive mass media over the Ukrainian crisis - but it does harm to his chances in political life where you have to acknowledge other points of view. It's noteworthy that Ilyumzhinov reached out an olive branch and offered a VP position, or something like that, to Kasparov. I doubt the latter would have done the same, wrapped up in a far-too-shallow "winner take all" view of politics to do so. That he noisily objects to what are typical political manoeuvres, such as out-bs'ing his bs, or wishes he had castigated the winners beforehand, is just sour grapes.
This to me, and not simply his willingness to battle, is a key to his failure in the election.
Last edited by Nigel Hanrahan; Thursday, 14th August, 2014, 05:06 PM.
Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.
Indeed, I also had the same reaction about the remarks, but perhaps that is Kasparov's nature - every conversation, every issue is an epic battle as if it was on the chess board! Perhaps that is a chess player's worst nightmare: the inability to see the real world as different from the chess board. Analogies are fine as far as they go and if they don't go far.
I acknowledge Garry Kasparov as a super talented chess player (perhaps greatest of all time) but I do not see leadership qualities in him. He has no shortage of passion, but perhaps is lacking a lot in managerial and team building skills.
If your assessment that I put in bold is true, then it is somewhat disturbing what this says about putting chess in schools. If we JUST put chess in schools and do not accompany that with some sort of activity that teaches managerial and team building skills AND some activity that involves the element of chance and teaches risk management, then we end up turning out a lot of high school graduates who lack in management and team skills, not to mention graduates who expect their every decision to have calculable and definite results.
I'm glad to see a few people acknowledging that chess is NOT life, as so many celebrities in the chess world and otherwise are fond of saying. Chess is almost anti-life: it is the opposite of what happens in the real world.
As to the Kasparov statement, I see no sign of him being a poor sport or wallowing in self pity. If he doesn't congratulate Kirsan, it's because he genuinely feels Kirsan is bad news. This is pretty much summed up by these words from Kasparov: "The sad conclusion is that working hard and having big ideas and investing millions of dollars for the global development of chess all has very little to do with winning a FIDE election today."
I also liked this statement: "Eventually, growth and change in the chess world will change FIDE; it is clear that FIDE cannot change itself."
The one thing life teaches us is that everything in our reality moves in cycles. At one time the Roman Empire seemed invincible, but changes in the world outside along with corruption and stagnation within the empire caused its collapse. FIDE may be all there is for chess for now, but don't count on that being the case much longer. If anything, Kasparov's loss may hasten FIDE's ultimate collapse. This is not the time in history for the status quo in chess politics. FIDE is not adjusting nearly fast enough (if at all) to the new reality of the world as social network, enabled by technology.
Instead, FIDE and chess in general is mired in regulations to separate itself from technology, in the name of preventing cheating. But cheating is merely a symptom of the real disease: chess, like the dinosaurs so long ago, is failing to adapt to rapid change. As just one example, we still wait for chess960 to gain equal footing and support with standard chess. And chess960 is really a minor change, it only removes the opening memorization from chess. There are other changes needed to add the dynamics and excitement to chess that the adult world demands.
Kirsan, in his post-election statement, said this: "What are the chess fans to expect in the near future? An exciting World Championship match between Magnus Carlsen and Vishy Anand will take place..."
That match will prove as exciting as watching the grass grow in the Sahara Desert. That this is the best Kirsan could come up with shows how bad the situation is for both FIDE and for chess.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
Well, Paul, I can't help but notice your USA team ended up in 14th place. A somewhat poorer showing than normal and out of the top 10.
Do you feel the FIDE election had any effect on the players performance and poor, by their standards, placing?
Maybe it shows money can't play chess. You need to put a warm ass in the chair.
My USA team? I'm still a Canadian citizen and NOT an American citizen. According to that interview with Sam Shankland that Jack Maguire posted, the FIDE election meant almost nothing to him, if that's any indication as to the rest of the US team.
I saw somewhere you wrote to someone they shouldn't rub it in, that the Canadian teams tried hard. I'm sure that is true, but aren't you the one who is always saying "winning is everything" in chess? ;)
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
I saw somewhere you wrote to someone they shouldn't rub it in, that the Canadian teams tried hard. I'm sure that is true, but aren't you the one who is always saying "winning is everything" in chess? ;)
Winning is everything but not every team is able to do it. There can only be one.
A lot of space has been used for the FIDE election here on the main message board. How it affected the Canadian players, if at all, they will have to decide. Certainly there didn't seem to be as much interest in the play as in the politics here.
Had Shankland not had a super result the USA team would have finished worse.
In any case, the USA finish this year is like a short elevator ride from the penthouse to the outhouse. :D
Last edited by Gary Ruben; Thursday, 14th August, 2014, 06:44 PM.
Its easy enough to overthrow chess federations but the hard part is doing the work required to run federations.
There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things. For the reformer has enemies in all those who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit by the new order, this lukewarmness arising partly from fear of their adversaries … and partly from the incredulity of mankind, who do not truly believe in anything new until they have had actual experience of it.
– Niccolo Machiavelli
It's hysterical that you would use that quote to defend your behavior in this FIDE election. You rejected the true reformer in favor of the stagnant status quo. Another 4 years of Kirsan will not bring even a smell of a new order of things. And the quote describes exactly why you did it: "the reformer has enemies in all those who profit by the old order" describes perfectly the CFC's acceptance of $80K from Kirsan in return for making Kasparov the enemy.
On top of all that, when I give you notice that I and others will be launching a new federation for a new form of chess -- something that truly does count as a new order of things, with all the difficulty and peril Machiavelli describes -- you further entrench yourself as one of the enemies who profit by the old order: you mock the idea of such a change. It is so hilarious for you to use that quote! You turn the reality of things on its head and expect to get away with it!
Just like the previous Machiavelli quote which I amply repudiated (you were left dumbfounded to the point where you had some meek reply about little insight, but made no debating points whatsoever), this quote also has a large element of subjectiveness to it. For who is "the reformer"? Who decides who the true reformer is? The litmus test in the quote is "the introduction of a new order of things", but even that is subjective. Who decides what constitutes a "new order of things"? Does the CFC focusing entirely on junior chess count as such a dramatic change? I for one think not.
You are going to say you are the reformer of the CFC, with all that 'mouse that roared' talk about how no one is going to intimidate the CFC (haha! great way to bring in sponsors!). Others, such as myself and I'm sure Sid and Sasha and many more besides, will dispute that you have an ounce of reformer in you, with your meek surrender to the lures of Kirsan and the status quo. In 4 years time, I'm sure we'll be referring to the mythical $80K just as today we look back on the Trillium Fund.
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Last edited by Brian Profit; Friday, 15th August, 2014, 09:58 AM.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
It's hysterical that you would use that quote to defend your behavior in this FIDE election. You rejected the true reformer in favor of the stagnant status quo.
The only reform I saw was that there would be a different set of bosses with different priorities. Judging from the actions and behaviour during the election there was nothing there for the CFC. The Kasparov slate which included such reformers as Danailov of toiletgate fame lost every continental election as well. There was nothing in the campaign nor in Kasparov's history to suggest that he was capable of running FIDE.
In 20 years you will still be posting about your new federation but it won't be any closer to reality.
Last edited by Brian Profit; Friday, 15th August, 2014, 09:59 AM.
"You and the senior members of the Kasparov campaign assured us that Garry was going to win. It didn't happen and the election played out much as everyone who was less emotionally invested in the outcome expected it to. In general it is better to deal with reality in an objective manner instead of expecting it to conform to what we want it to be."
All well and good to say that however, we offered support unconditionally regardless of who wins the election and I made sure that was made clear before the final decision was made. Mig has even gone so far as to offer support despite your support for the crook. Instead of being involved in truly great things like Sinquefeld's tremendous efforts you chose to take a very small minded approach for chess in Canada. The sad part is that it is not only the CFC's loss but it is a loss for chess players in Canada and especially the youth. I love the game and I will continue to support chess but I will never support the CFC's involvement with crooked Kirsan. I am more surprised and disappointed then bitter at the extent of corruption that exists within many Federations and yes very surprised and disappointed that the CFC would want any part of this. No doubt you will have some smart alec reply and dissect every sentence like you always do. Have a nice life.
Endlessly repeating something does not make it so. Stop your snivelling. Wipe away your tears. Blow your nose. Man up. It was never meant to be. Are you going to forever bear a grudge because we didn't allow you to fail epicly by a 109-62 margin instead of the actual 110-61 margain? Grow up. You lost on every continent. Canada was not the only western democracy to vote against you. This abrasive style of campaigning where you assume that we must vote for the anointed one doesn't work. It didn't work in the campaign. It didn't work anywhere. All I see from you is more tantrums. I see better behaviour from the six and seven year old kids that I teach chess to.
How is that whirlwind that you promised looking now, Sid? Seems like more of a dust devil.
Endlessly repeating something does not make it so. Stop your snivelling. Wipe away your tears. Blow your nose. Man up. It was never meant to be. Are you going to forever bear a grudge because we didn't allow you to fail epicly by a 109-62 margin instead of the actual 110-61 margain? Grow up. You lost on every continent. Canada was not the only western democracy to vote against you. This abrasive style of campaigning where you assume that we must vote for the anointed one doesn't work. It didn't work in the campaign. It didn't work anywhere. All I see from you is more tantrums. I see better behaviour from the six and seven year old kids that I teach chess to.
How is that whirlwind that you promised looking now, Sid? Seems like more of a dust devil.
You seem to be one that endlessly repeats the same thing. The result of the vote is not the issue. The issue is what benefits Canadian chess the most. Mig offered the CFC a great unconditional offer irrespective of which candidate you supported. But your personal vanity does not allow you to let the CFC get involved in something great. Instead you prefer to taunt and ridicule and show everyone how smart you are at predicting the election. Even I predicted that Kirsan would win right here in a post from chess talk. It is hard to compete with Kirsan who promises things that will not be kept starting with the $20,000,000 that Makro himself called "bullsh*t". You don't need to be a genius to predict the outcome of a rigged system.
Trust me Vlad, you and I are no geniuses. Our chess ratings prove that, LOL! Thank God that I have had at least enough common sense in life to recognize opportunities in life when they come along. You claim 80K over 4 years offers greater benefits then what Mig was speaking of tells me that you have terrible judgement abilities. Especially when the CFC might be able to have both opportunities. But you seem to think it more important for the CFC to pillory and piss all over Garry. You would and never will make it in business with that kind of judgement.
Maybe it is time to stop trashing Garry and his supporters and call Mig mend the fences and see what opportunities are really out there. Me thinks it is you that needs to grow up and better still smarten up if possible.
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Friday, 15th August, 2014, 08:35 PM.
The only reform I saw was that there would be a different set of bosses with different priorities. Judging from the actions and behaviour during the election there was nothing there for the CFC. The Kasparov slate which included such reformers as Danailov of toiletgate fame lost every continental election as well. There was nothing in the campaign nor in Kasparov's history to suggest that he was capable of running FIDE.
In 20 years you will still be posting about your new federation but it won't be any closer to reality.
It won't be any closer to YOUR reality. Even if it's a flourishing, profitable enterprise, you'll never admit it even exists.
BTW, is Brian Profit actually editing our posts? Or is someone hacking in using his account?
Is Brian Profit now an admin or moderator on this forum?
I don't think Brian Profit is an admin or moderator... I went to the Chesstalk member's list to look up his username and discovered pages and pages
of registered members beginning with 'b' that are all nonsense names - likely a bot has been registering bogus names to post spam... and so it goes.
I don't know why Brian Profit is shown as having last edited the posts in this thread... another mystery I guess.
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