K=40 now

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  • K=40 now

    Since July 1, 2014 FIDE changed K-factor for U2400 players. Instead of 15, now K=20 for adults and 40 for juniors U18 and below 2300.

    For adults, the change is minor. Rating's fluctuation will be slightly bigger. For juniors the issue is completely different.

    K=40 means that last month's performance will have significant impact on new rating, sometimes this performance is more important than initial rating. If some junior plays 19 games, the new FIDE rating will reflect his performance only, no matter what was his initial rating.

    Here is an example to better understand this point. 3 juniors have initial rating 2000, 2100 and 2200. Each of them plays 19 games. To simplify the calculation, they play only against 2200 FIDE exactly and draw each game.

    First player (initial rating 2000). Expected result: 0.24 point/game. 0.26 * 19 * 40 = 197.6 points. The new rating will be 2198.
    Second player (2100). Expected result: 0.36 point/game. 0.14 * 19 * 40 = 106 points. The new rating will be 2206.
    Third player (2200). Expected result: 0.5 point/game. 0 * 19 * 40 = 0 points. The new rating will be 2200.

    So after just 19 games each of them will have around 2200, no matter what was their old rating.

    Sure 19 games/month is a lot, but it's a very realistic number for some juniors. In Canada, July probably could give the most chances to play great number of games. World Open and Canadian Open give 18 games. CYCC and CO (very popular combination) give 16, if every game is rated. If junior plays 16 games, the impact on the new rating will be around 85%, and the old rating has just 15%.

    At the end, some funny example. One junior has FIDE rating of 2200. He wants to be a 2300 player. With the new K-factor, it's very simple. He doesn't need to hire a good coach, read chess books, prepare to each game, eat and sleep properly during the tournament... Nothing. All he needs is just to make 2 steps.

    1. Artificially reduce the rating as low as possible (sandbagging) before he plans to play a lot.
    2. Play a lot.

    Let say, he dropped to 2000, and after what played 30 games with performance of 2200. (After all he remains the same junior, no better and no worse - 2200 player).
    From the first example he gains 0.26 * 30 * 40 = 312 points. The new one will be 2312. Congratulations!

  • #2
    Re: K=40 now

    Is there a maximum number of games that can be rated in a month using k-factor?

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    • #3
      Re: K=40 now

      Very impressive analysis Victor. Very strong insight. I imagine your professional life must have ties to analytics.

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      • #4
        Re: K=40 now

        Originally posted by Andy Shaw View Post
        Very impressive analysis Victor. Very strong insight. I imagine your professional life must have ties to analytics.
        It's clear that Victor's professional life is tied to creating arbitrage.

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        • #5
          Re: K=40 now

          There are lots of places in Europe that one could easily play 25 or more games in a month. At the very least one should not get a rating higher than any performance rating that one had ever attained in that particular rating cycle.
          "Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.

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          • #6
            Re: K=40 now

            This is just FIDE's ingenious plan of collecting payment by giving every kid and their sibling/cousin a free FM title so that they don't need to rely on Putin to bail them out in future world championship matches. I for one, applaud their economic approach but will not be shocked to see the FM title be compared to that of other various dubious titles handed out to boys and girls of developing chess nations.
            Shameless self-promotion on display here
            http://www.youtube.com/user/Barkyducky?feature=mhee

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            • #7
              Re: K=40 now

              Excellent! Now to just reduce my age to 17...

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              • #8
                Re: K=40 now

                Originally posted by Bindi Cheng View Post
                This is just FIDE's ingenious plan of collecting payment by giving every kid and their sibling/cousin a free FM title so that they don't need to rely on Putin to bail them out in future world championship matches. I for one, applaud their economic approach but will not be shocked to see the FM title be compared to that of other various dubious titles handed out to boys and girls of developing chess nations.
                guess that means a GM title will be the only title of value. the IM title means little these days when you can win it in a minor tournament. better hit the books to get a real title.

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                • #9
                  Re: K=40 now

                  Originally posted by joshua hu View Post
                  guess that means a GM title will be the only title of value. the IM title means little these days when you can win it in a minor tournament. better hit the books to get a real title.
                  They could add more titles and raise the criteria to get them. As an example, add a Senior International Master title with a performance rating requirement half way between IM and GM. Also add a Super GM or Senior GM title which require a higher performance ratings other criteria which is more difficult to obtain than for the current GM title. The idea would be to have fewer of the new title holders than the current crop of GM's.
                  Gary Ruben
                  CC - IA and SIM

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                  • #10
                    Re: K=40 now

                    Originally posted by Victor Plotkin View Post
                    2. Play a lot.
                    FIDE could use a new rating for every tournament during the rating period. The extreme can be an updated rating after every game. Smth like a live rating.

                    Otherwise K=40 is terrible.

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                    • #11
                      Re: K=40 now

                      A couple of years ago I looked at increasing the K factor for juniors but the CFC database didn't have complete data for players' ages
                      Paul Leblanc
                      Treasurer Chess Foundation of Canada

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                      • #12
                        Re: K=40 now

                        Theres hope! (k=40) maybe I can get back some of those rating points from other juniors.

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                        • #13
                          Re: K=40 now

                          Originally posted by Hans Jung View Post
                          Theres hope! (k=40) maybe I can get back some of those rating points from other juniors.
                          First you have to find the fountain of youth so that you can pass for eighteen.

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                          • #14
                            Re: K=40 now

                            No - Im happy to be me - I just want to play those -18 year olds (especially with all their accumulated bonus points)!

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                            • #15
                              Re : K=40 now

                              You are bringing up an interesting point that has been debated for decades. One has to remember in the old days no FIDE rating (for men) was published U2200 (or was it 2250 ?) and for women U2000. Very often we've seen women really worth about 1400-1500 get a 2000 FIDE rating.

                              In your example, since July 2014, the 2000-player gets to 2198 instead of 2158. Your 2100-player gets to 2206 instead of 2185. In your final case sandbagger gets to 2312 instead of 2250.

                              Many cases, such as Myanmar's situation, were brought up over the years. (at the end, the whole country stopped playing FIDE rated chess)

                              For me, having a 2158 rating or a 2312 rating means almost the same thing. Sure if you get to the FM title you'll get a nice piece of paper saying "Congratulations for your achievement" and maybe even a pin (that anyway you'll pay for). Sure FIDE will make a lot more money with all those changes. But I'm just not sure how all those things can be bad for chess. In fact, I can see many benefits to those "money making initiatives". Can't you ?

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