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(Thanks to Nigel Hanrahan for writing these up!)
The CMA and the CFC support IM Razvan's quest for the GM title!
No, I meant socialism. Tax, take from, charge those who have money and give it to someone who needs it. I think that is what the pundits on Fox news call it when Obama tries something or when the government tries anything. In our situation, the executive is the government. Was it not France's socialist government that wanted to tax the rich at a rate of 75% to pay for social programs for those without the money to pay for them? Pretty sure that is what is happening here, from my point of view. From the person getting the money, they might think it was capitalism.
I think you mean crony capitalism. I mean in the general sense, not in the specific case here with IM Preotu.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
Brian's incoherent political drive-by notwithstanding, he has a very good point that shouldn't be lost.
"$1000 should have been offered up to help an interested organizer host the Open. That is the sort of thing that a national organization who is not in the business of picking winners or losers should do. "
I'd like to hear a serious reply to this.
Hi Nigel:
I was a bit unclear trying to be terse......what I intended was that Brian's question was excellent...and that both political systems suffer from the flaw he is pointing to (I like to think of it as: Let those who are without flaws, throw the first stone! [an admitted paraphrase of something]).
I am happy to be corrected if I am misinterpreting the name of system at hand. I wish I was as happy with how I am interpreting the situation at hand.
Let there be no mistake on 2 things:
1. In the end this will probably cost the CFC about $500 if the most recent payouts from the Pugi fund are anything to go on and
2. I hope he gets his title.
I just think he should find money that did not come from me through my membership fees to reach his personal goal. Especially when the federation has other issues to deal with. The Canadian Open has been run for how many consecutive years and it seems there is no money to help make that happen, but we can find money to help a single person? Even if the tournament happens and the CFC does help it get off the ground, I would still question the decision.
I am happy to be corrected if I am misinterpreting the name of system at hand. I wish I was as happy with how I am interpreting the situation at hand.
Let there be no mistake on 2 things:
1. In the end this will probably cost the CFC about $500 if the most recent payouts from the Pugi fund are anything to go on and
2. I hope he gets his title.
I just think he should find money that did not come from me through my membership fees to reach his personal goal. Especially when the federation has other issues to deal with. The Canadian Open has been run for how many consecutive years and it seems there is no money to help make that happen, but we can find money to help a single person? Even if the tournament happens and the CFC does help it get off the ground, I would still question the decision.
It is perfectly reasonable to question the decision, the optics around it and the lack of process (all extremely valid points, BTW). I would not even remotely criticize the Preotu family - they merely asked and, well, in a nutshell it was granted... I am sure the Pugi Fund will find this a perfectly worthy cause right up their only mandate and, as you said, likely award the customary (I guess) $500 or so. The CFC seems to mirror several political parties that are in power: do things first and explain (optionally) later. I was concerned that Larry announced this and nary a peep from the CFC (for once the CFC should have prayed their website and/or forums were down so they could have a legitimate excuse for lack of transparency...)
Anyway, once again the CFC seems to prove that you get no more than you pay for and frequently a lot less...
I will give a different point of view. The CMA is free to do whatever it wants with its money. However, it is criminal for what the CFC has done.
Et tu, Brian? How is it criminal?
With no precedent, no selection process, no advertising that this is a practice, and no idea of the final dollar amount, they have taken money from the CFC accounts and directly given it to a single member.
We have taken money from the youth account and given it to a young player who is on the verge of becoming a grandmaster in the hope that it will be some help in achieving this aim which I would suspect most players would think would be a good outcome.
The Pugi fund is the place for this and Razvan should have applied to it earlier or waited for the money to come eventually. 30 years of experience tells me that one more Canadian GM will do very little to improve Canadian chess. Thomas Roussel-Roozmon, Bluvshtein, LeSiege, Charbonneau. They all come and go. All this with the backdrop that there is no Canadian Open planned for all the members.
The youth fund is for youth activities. It is raised from youth activities like YCC's and CYCC's. It is spent on WYCC's and other youth oriented projects like U16 youth olympiad. If we took money out of the youth fund to pay for the Canadian Open then what would most likely happen is that parents and the kids would get upset and fewer people would attend CYCC and YCC's and there wouldn't be money to make judgement calls like sending Qiyu Zhou to WYCC or Razvan Preotu to the tournament which might give him the GM title. If we ever want to be something more than we are now as far as sponsorship and being considered a sport worthy of support then we had better have some success stories like Qiyu and Razvan to talk to corporate and government and sporting federations about.
If you want to organize a Canadian Open then we will support you with quite a bit more than $1000 but unlike the funds for Razvan and Qiyu it will come from our general funds and not from the youth fund.
$1000 should have been offered up to help an interested organizer host the Open. That is the sort of thing that a national organization who is not in the business of picking winners or losers should do.
We are not picking winners or losers we are just trying to put someone in a position where they get to do something remarkable like become a GM in the case of Razvan.
The only good thing I can see is that Vlad has embraced socialism.
That is just silly.
Taking money from others and redistributing it to who he and the executive feels needs it.
On chesstalk and perhaps in Canadian chess no good deed goes unpunished.
Climate change acceptance will be next.
Climate changes all the time.
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Wednesday, 18th February, 2015, 11:44 PM.
Hi Nigel: I was a bit unclear trying to be terse......what I intended was that Brian's question was excellent...and that both political systems suffer from the flaw he is pointing to ... [etc]
No problem, Bob. Also, my question wasn't directed to you but to those who made the decision that Brian P. has critiqued.
For the record, I too hope that Razvan gets his title.
Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.
The youth fund is for youth activities. It is raised from youth activities like YCC's and CYCC's. It is spent on WYCC's and other youth oriented projects like U16 youth olympiad.
Rules say differently where monies gained from CYCCs should be spend. "The balance of the monies received shall go to the CYCC fund which shall be used to pay the travel expenses or a portion of the travel expenses of the participants in the WYCC. Any surplus monies shall be retained by the CFC to cover any losses incurred in the CYCC program for prior years or to be held to fund travel for future CYCC events where there is a shortfall."
(imho, in the "future CYCC events" suppose to be "WYCC")
Rules say differently where monies gained from CYCCs should be spend. "The balance of the monies received shall go to the CYCC fund which shall be used to pay the travel expenses or a portion of the travel expenses of the participants in the WYCC. Any surplus monies shall be retained by the CFC to cover any losses incurred in the CYCC program for prior years or to be held to fund travel for future CYCC events where there is a shortfall."
(imho, in the "future CYCC events" suppose to be "WYCC")
The executive also used this fund to finance the NAYCC ($3,638.30) and the U16 Olympiads ($9,781.00). The 2015 WYCC cost $40,252.03 to the CFC.
Re: The CMA and the CFC support IM Razvan's quest for the GM title!
Yes, unfortunately me too.
The confusing thing is that you are so smart and you didn't think that anyone would point out the problems with the decision. I used the word criminal, as when someone raises money for one purpose and spends it on another while breaking written rules, one might call that criminal. Since it is clear you think what you did was correct, and there will be no convincing you otherwise, I will merely ask for the following questions to be answered.
1. Under the CFC rules for the money in the youth fund there is no mention of giving it to players to travel and play for themselves. Do you think you followed the rules as they are written? I am not asking if it was a good idea or not. I am asking if the written rules were followed.
2. Will you be rewriting the rules to allow for this?
3. Will you be laying out a procedure for youth players to apply for money like this in the future no matter if the rules are changed or not?
4. Will you be advertising this as a CFC policy in the future, such as in the literature for the next CYCC?
5. Will you consider just donating some of the excess funds from the CYCC to the Pugi fund as the proper mechanism for this sort of funding?
6. You wrote that the CFC would contribute to hosting the Canadian Open. How much money is the CFC willing to put up for an organizer to run the Canadian Open?
7. Has this funding for the Canadian Open been advertised anywhere?
8. Will you be advertising this funding in an effort to have the Canadian Open run?
Brian's incoherent political drive-by notwithstanding, he has a very good point that shouldn't be lost.
"$1000 should have been offered up to help an interested organizer host the Open. That is the sort of thing that a national organization who is not in the business of picking winners or losers should do. "
I'd like to hear a serious reply to this.
Brian's comments seemed perfectly clear and well-written to me. What was it that you found incoherent?
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Rules say differently where monies gained from CYCCs should be spend. "The balance of the monies received shall go to the CYCC fund which shall be used to pay the travel expenses or a portion of the travel expenses of the participants in the WYCC. Any surplus monies shall be retained by the CFC to cover any losses incurred in the CYCC program for prior years or to be held to fund travel for future CYCC events where there is a shortfall."
(imho, in the "future CYCC events" suppose to be "WYCC")
E.Z., you should know better than to bother Vlad with the facts! :) I wonder how many CFC members really care about these things (they should). Whatever youth funds the CFC is in possession of have been provided substantially (100%?) by parents and yet, for several years recently, the CFC has been content to let Canadian Open organizers dip into CYCC entry fees to help fund the CO. But, who really gives a damn, right?
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Re: The CMA and the CFC support IM Razvan's quest for the GM title!
Also under the old bylaws specifically in the section on CYCC:
716. Authority of the Board of Directors:
The CFC Board of Directors shall rule on any situation not covered by these regulations and shall have the authority to rule on any matter which is in dispute.
1401. CYCC Fund
All revenue and expenses concerning the Canadian Youth Chess Championships (CYCC) are to be processed to a CYCC account, separate from general revenue. Excess funds are to be used for Junior functions. Portions of the fund each year may be allocated to the Kalev Pugi Fund upon a motion made by the Governors in that particular year.
The present bylaw is the one passed at the time of the transition to the NFP act.
The purpose(s) of the corporation is:
To promote and encourage generally in Canada, the knowledge, study and playing of the game of chess, and to this end, and without restricting the generality of the foregoing....
TO protect and foster the interests of Canadian Chess players, as far as possible, in the field of national and international chess competition; ...
TO expend any funds in its possession or under its control, in any manner or degree, in its entire discretion, for the furtherance of the general objectives of the Federation; ...
Restrictions on the activities that the corporation may carry on, if any
None
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Thursday, 19th February, 2015, 01:41 PM.
5. Will you consider just donating some of the excess funds from the CYCC to the Pugi fund as the proper mechanism for this sort of funding?
I thought the Pugi Fund was topped up by donations from the CFC and more than once but maybe someone will correct me on this. Topped up by "adult money". These days the original amount would be rather insignificant.
I'd like to see a financial report which shows the adult money and juniors money. I always thought it was the MEMBERS money that's squirreled away in the chess foundation.
More has to be done with chess for those who are no longer juniors. The sad state of affairs in Canada has Olympiad teams which can't crack the top 50 in placings. Twice in a row now.
Maybe it's time to split the CFC into two sections. Adult and Junior with different people involved with each section.
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