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So what's the deal? I seem to remember a thread where numerous people were slagging the French, and in particular the Winawer. If it's good enough for Kamsky then why isn't it good enough for us mortals?
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
So what's the deal? I seem to remember a thread where numerous people were slagging the French, and in particular the Winawer. If it's good enough for Kamsky then why isn't it good enough for us mortals?
Actually, it was little old me writing about the evils of playing the Winawer against stronger players. In the game you linked, Kamsky got his clock cleaned and provides an example of how NOT to play the Winawer, even though the players were evenly matched. Karjakin was giving chess lessons. :)
Actually, it was little old me writing about the evils of playing the Winawer against stronger players. In the game you linked, Kamsky got his clock cleaned and provides an example of how NOT to play the Winawer, even though the players were evenly matched. Karjakin was giving chess lessons. :)
Ban the Winawer!! :D
Gary,
Apart from the final result, your comments bear no relation to the actual content of this game.
Apart from the final result, your comments bear no relation to the actual content of this game.
Dan,
Apart from Kamsky blundering his way through the game, what did I miss? I know we could say if he had played better him might have drawn or won. Still, the wall chart shows a 0.
Don't get me wrong. I love the French Defence. Playing the white side gave me the points I needed to get my correspondence title.
The following game notes were provided by FIDE and are translated (by Misha Savinov) from the comments of Sergey Shipov. We are grateful for permission to reproduce his commentary here. All photos by courtesy of FIDE.
The seventh round brought only minor changes to the overall picture. The leader remained the same. The main drama of the round occurred in Kamsky’s game – the American missed an easy win against Karjakin and did not manage to make the first time control.
Sergey Karjakin-Gata Kamsky
Chess is brutal. It punishes you for every slight mistake you make. You can play most of the game brilliantly, and then lose concentration for a move or two – and it’s over. You are knocked out, like in boxing. I feel sorry for Kamsky. As a chess player, I understand very well how hard a blow it was for him. Gata handled the Winawer Variation of the French excellently, employed an interesting scheme with the knight on d5 (previously Black always put the knight on f5). Probably this is one of the lines prepared for the match against Topalov. After White captured the f7-pawn, Black’s pieces occupied excellent squares and began to bother the White king. Karjakin’s counterplay started with 21.a4 was probably the best practical chance in a difficult situation. The only thing he could do was to put the pressure on the opponent and force him to calculate a lot. I will not list here all the winning moves for Black. It is enough to point out the simple 27…Qxc2!, which could decide the game in a few moves. In the mutual time trouble Sergey acted quicker and more accurate – and Gata miscalculated, ended up in a lost position, and lost on time."
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
That looks like a fair analysis. In a game amongst equals, rather than a weak player using the defence against one who is weaker, for one reason or another the black side of that defense so often does poorly. I used Euwe, in his winning championship match against Alekhine, an example. His loses came with the Winawer and he liked his chances so much he kept playing it.
Isn't Bob Kiviaho a Correspondence GM?? I guess Active isn't his cup of tea!
Yes. Bob is a correspondence GM. Well known to many who write here.
I played Bob OTB and correspondence in the 70's as far as I recall. When he was quite a good player. He won both games.
I couldn't possibly comment on his play in the 90's at active (or any other) time controls. Haven't heard much about Bob recently. Maybe after losing that game to you he quit forever. I've lost to people who have put the thought of quitting in my mind.
Euwe and Alekhine, you might as well reference the Babylonians or the Sumerians, or if you want to be up to date how about the Egyptian Pharos?????
I don't visit museums. Many are a bunch of grave robbers. I'll have to take what you say at face value but I'm not sure how a world championship from what is still considered modern times could be compared to ancient biblical times. For all I know Kamsky might get the warm fuzzies from emulating Euwe.
So I assume you reference only the first edition of ECO when you are playing correspondence? I mean heck its from the modern era right?
Actually, I'm looking at top GM games these days and up to date analysis and some publications.
I'm winding down my correspondence "career". Starting to feel my age. It doesn't come as easy as it once did. All I want to do is push wood like so many others.
On a happy note, I really enjoyed that game Samsonkin played against Nakamura. There was another beautiful game which wasn't mentioned. The next game when Nakamura took out the loss on Barron. What a crush! Did you see it?
No I didn't see it but I have a weak stomach for such things, I hate to see someone get crushed, especially someone of such a sweet disposition...
Okay I take that back, I watched the game, how the heck do you play that way against a GM, what the heck was he thinking, what kind of opening was that? Nights on the rim are dim and the exchange sac should not be surprising at all. At least play a6 like Anthony Miles did against Karpov.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Friday, 24th April, 2009, 04:04 PM.
No I didn't see it but I have a weak stomach for such things, I hate to see someone get crushed, especially someone of such a sweet disposition...
Okay I take that back, I watched the game, how the heck do you play that way against a GM, what the heck was he thinking, what kind of opening was that? Nights on the rim are dim and the exchange sac should not be surprising at all. At least play a6 like Anthony Miles did against Karpov.
I look at it differently. Nakamura didn't crush the person. He crushed the position. :)
I've played the Dutch against some strong correspondence opponents over the years but used a different move order. The result was pretty much in keeping with the expectation of the difference in elo rating but very nice. The reason I watched the game was to see how Nakamura would react to the previous loss. He made a statement!
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