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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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Rene;
I did not put your name nor did I quote you, so why do you think I was referring to you? Unless you are so sensitive to replies that you think everyone is out to get you.
Rene;
I did not put your name nor did I quote you, so why do you think I was referring to you? Unless you are so sensitive to replies that you think everyone is out to get you.
Because I was the only one who posted before your post, and I repeat, William Li, played in the tournament so he doesn't qualify as a chesstalker.
Last edited by Rene Preotu; Monday, 31st August, 2015, 12:19 AM.
Mississauga Open 2015 finished with a record turnout in her history ( at least 120 players ) Not too sure about the actual number attended.
Open section was won by IM Kaiqi Yang with an epic final game against Mark Plotkin. End game was a great game. FM Michael Song was placed 2nd and there were a couple of players tied for 3rd one of which Rohan Talukdar from Windsor
U-2000 section was won by Thomas Guo and a couple of tied for 2nd, one of them Adam Gaisinsky ( Windsor ).
Not too sure about other sections and hopefully Bob Gillanders / Garvin will post all the results.
Prizes was $ 3k plus trophies awarded ( more than 50% additional from the guaranteed of $ 2k ). All sections had prize $$$ even for U-1200 section ( one for rated and one for unrated ).
Thanks to Mississauga Chess Club for hosting this tournament and I am pretty sure most had a great time. Hope next year will be an even better organized tournament. See you guys again.
Congratulations on a great turnout Gary. A record crowd in a new venue must have kept the organizing team hopping! I look forward to seeing the final results.
Congratulations on a great turnout Gary. A record crowd in a new venue must have kept the organizing team hopping! I look forward to seeing the final results.
I played.......it was a great tournament.
But, like for all organizers, the last minute on-site entries caused significant problems.....the first day's rounds all started late, including the first round. As well, the increments meant that the end of round 1 was much later than scheduled.
I'm not sure what to do about the increments issue...I like the increments....I don't know if the main game time could be shortened to allow more time for "run-on games"?
As to the on-site entries issue, which always delays round one for all the guppies who pre-registered, arrive early and check in and pay, and expected to start on time, and get home at a decent hour (like, in your dreams), I have a suggestion:
1. only pre-registrations get into the first round "first pairings group". There is a cut-off date for pre-regs. Once the date passes, the organizers post the first round pairings. On the day of the tournament, there are two registration desks in two different areas - one for pre-regs check-in & payment; a second for "On-site Registrations". The clocks for the Pre-registration group start for Rd. 1 when they are supposed to (novel idea:)!) The only suggestion I have for the "repairing problem", due to withdrawals, no shows, etc., is that you only get into the Pre-registration pairings group if you have pre-paid as well....this requires the organizer to have a simple credit/debit card payment system on pre-registration.
2. All on-site entries go into a "second pairings group".....there is a cut-off time for accepting them on-site. They are processed at the "On-site
Registrations" Desk. At the on-site cut-off time, all then in line are sent to a separate area to be registered (the now clear Pre-regs desk). They are paired (move them from the lobby so that the line-up doesn't just continue growing, and then the late-comers complain that it is the long line that made them miss the cut-off time). Then this second group can start playing as well (maybe even at the start time for Rd. 1!)
3. "Late" registrations (they missed the pre-reg cut-off; they missed the on-site cut-off) - taken at the "On-site Registrations" desk as was being done. BUT they are advised they will NOT be paired for Rd. 1 - they are given a 1/2 pt. Rd. 1 "bye". The reason...to process them now into Rd. 1 delays the tournament Rd. 1 ending time. I know there will be vigorous complaining by this late, last-minute group. But if you don't do this, how do you woodshed people into pre-registering, if no serious penalty? One could again pair this final group as a third pairings, but when are they going to start playing.....late......delaying the ending of round 1. Also, when do you exercise cut-off? Wait 'til there is no one else in line?...how late past the Rd. 1 starting time will this be? And what happens when you are ready to pair them, and Mr/Ms Late Late shows up and demands to play Rd. 1 and to be included now in the final Rd. 1 pairings group?
I know this is a bit volunteer intensive for the organizers. But I have only seen one other system that got Rd. 1 off the ground on-time...that was the tournament where the draconian "Pre-registration Guillotine" was employed......NO ON-SITE ENTRIES!!!! (there was a date of close of pre-registrations, and that was it.....too late = too late). I thought it a great idea.....but most organizers I've talked to felt it costs them too much money.....they want the registration fees of all the "Late-comers".
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
Bob A
3.
Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Monday, 31st August, 2015, 11:24 AM.
2. All on-site entries go into a second pairings group.....there is a cut-off time for accepting them on-site. At that time, all then in line are sent to a separate area to be registered and paired (so that the line-up doesn't just continue growing, and then the late-comers complain that it is the long line that made them miss the cut-off time). Then they can start playing as well.
In addition - if they start playing after the rest of the field has started - split the time difference, so that their games will end a roughly the same times as others. Also (if possible), place the paired late entries in a separate room so their setting up and starting noise doesn't disturb the others.
But, like for all organizers, the last minute on-site entries caused significant problems.....the first day's rounds all started late, including the first round. As well, the increments meant that the end of round 1 was much later than scheduled.
I'm not sure what to do about the increments issue...I like the increments....I don't know if the main game time could be shortened to allow more time for run-on games?
As to the on-site entries issue, which always delays round one for all the guppies who pre-registered, and expected to start on time, and get home at a decent hour, I have a suggestion:
1. only pre-registrations get into the first round first pairings group. There is a cut-off date for pre-regs. Once the date passes, the organizers post the first round pairings. On the day of the tournament, the clocks for this group start when they are supposed to.
2. All on-site entries go into a second pairings group.....there is a cut-off time for accepting them on-site. At that time, all then in line are sent to a separate area to be registered and paired (so that the line-up doesn't just continue growing, and then the late-comers complain that it is the long line that made them miss the cut-off time). Then they can start playing as well.
3. "Late" registrations (they missed the pre-reg cut-off; they missed the on-site cut-off) - taken at the regular registration desk as was being done. BUT they are advised they will NOT be paired for Rd. 1 - they are given a 1/2 pt. Rd. 1 "bye". The reason...to process them now into Rd. 1 delays the tournament Rd. 1 ending time. I know there will be vigorous complaining by this late, last-minute group. But if you don't do this, how do you woodshed people into pre-registering, if no serious penalty? One could again pair this final group as a third pairings, but when are they going to start playing.....late......delaying the ending of round 1. Also, when do you exercise cut-off? Wait 'til there is no one else in line?...how late past the Rd. 1 starting time will this be? And what happens when you are ready to pair them, and Mr/Ms Late Late shows up and demands to play Rd. 1 and to be included now in the final Rd. 1 pairings group?
I know this is a bit volunteer intensive for the organizers. But I have only seen one other system that got Rd. 1 off the ground on-time...that was the tournament where the draconian "Pre-registration Guillotine" was employed......NO ON-SITE ENTRIES!!!! (there was a date of close of pre-registrations, and that was it.....too late = too late). I thought it a great idea.....but most organizers I've talked to felt it costs them too much money.....they want the registration fees of all the "Late-comers".
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
Bob A
3.
I do. I have gone to several tournament where organizers say that if you don't show up before a certain time you will either not be certain of getting a first round pairing or you won't get a first round pairing. I have never seen that happen ever. I would think it'd be very possible to make it clear that if you don't show up before a certain time you will NOT get a first round pairing, and get a bye. I mean really what's the point of coming on time if you know the round will start 20+ minutes late? If you know if you don't show up before 9:30 you will not get a first round pairing then you'll show before 9:30. At 9:30 get the pairing up, and people who show up late get byes. That's how I would do it anyway. It would be a tough thing to do, but it'd get the tournament started on time, and in my opinion it's worth it. There is no problem with forfeiting someone if they don't show up within 30 minutes of the round starting time, why shouldn't there be an as strict ruling for the first round, but 30 minutes earlier? In short in general I agree with Bob.
1. only pre-registrations get into the first round first pairings group. There is a cut-off date for pre-regs. Once the date passes, the organizers post the first round pairings. On the day of the tournament, the clocks for this group start when they are supposed to.
The pre-registration is exactly that - PRE-registration. Even some players, who fully paid a fee in advance, do not show up. Thus making pairings in advance is not the best thing for the mass Swiss tournament.
Nevertheless, the pre-registration is really helpful to the TA - it's much simpler/faster to remove the no-show player than to add on the tournament day.
As one organizer told me once: if the tournament did not start more than 1 hour late, players would not remember the tournament LOL
1. only pre-registrations get into the first round "first pairings group". There is a cut-off date for pre-regs. Once the date passes, the organizers post the first round pairings. On the day of the tournament, there are two registration desks in two different areas - one for pre-regs check-in & payment; a second for "On-site Registrations". The clocks for the Pre-registration group start for Rd. 1 when they are supposed to (novel idea:)!)
Even some players, who fully paid a fee in advance, do not show up. Thus making pairings in advance is not the best thing for the mass Swiss tournament.
Yes. A check in procedure is still required to avoid massive forfeits.
But a quick tweak of pairings should do the trick.
Bob A and Caleb raise a great point. I am as guilty as anyone for slow starts because of a lax registration procedure. In order to accommodate everyone, the best behaviours are punished. It's worth a re-visit.
Bob A and Caleb raise a great point. I am as guilty as anyone for slow starts because of a lax registration procedure. In order to accommodate everyone, the best behaviours are punished. It's worth a re-visit.
Hi Hal:
Thanks for being open to re-visiting your long-standing registration procedures for your tournaments.
I was wondering if we could start to get somewhere, by using my proposal as a "target"??
Here again is my re-edited Proposal:
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Swiss Tournament Registration System:
1. Pre-registration: only pre-registrations get into the first round "first pairings group". There is a cut-off date for pre-regs. Once the date passes, the organizers post the first round pairings (it is recognized that some may not show and pay, or some may withdraw, and the pairings will have to be redone before Rd. 1 on-site). On the day of the tournament, there are two registration desks in two different areas - one for pre-regs check-in & payment; a second for "On-site Registrations". The clocks for the Pre-registration group start for Rd. 1 when they are supposed to (novel idea!)
NOTE: The only suggestion I have for the "repairing problem", due to withdrawals, no shows, etc., is that you only get into the Pre-registration pairings group if you have pre-paid as well....this requires the organizer to have a simple credit/debit card payment system on pre-registration.
2. On-Site Entries Before On-site Cut-off: All on-site entries go into a "second pairings group".....there is a cut-off time for accepting them on-site. They are processed at the "On-site Registrations" Desk. At the on-site cut-off time, all then in line are sent to a separate area to be registered (the now clear Pre-regs desk?). They are paired (move them from the lobby so that the line-up doesn't just continue growing, and then the late-comers complain that it is the long line that made them miss the cut-off time). Then this second group can start playing as well (maybe even at the start time for Rd. 1!)
3. On-site "Late" Registrations: They missed the pre-reg cut-off; they missed the on-site cut-off - process them at the "On-site Registrations" desk as was being done. BUT they are advised they will NOT be paired for Rd. 1 - they are given a 1/2 pt. Rd. 1 "bye". The reason...to process them now into Rd. 1 delays the tournament Rd. 1 starting and ending time.
NOTE: I know there will be vigorous complaining by this late, last-minute group. But if you don't do this, how do you woodshed people into pre-registering, if no serious penalty? One could again pair this final group as a third pairings, but when are they going to start playing.....late......delaying the ending of round 1. Also, when do you exercise cut-off? Wait 'til there is no one else in line?...how late past the Rd. 1 starting time will this be? And what happens when you are ready to pair them, and Mr/Ms Late Late shows up and demands to play Rd. 1 and to be included now in the final Rd. 1 pairings group?
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Let's have everyone shoot down as much of it as possible.....with the one condition....they must give actual wording amendments and propose a "better" alternative (not perfect maybe, but fewer downsides)!
Maybe we could get some consensus among Chesstalkers (??? have I lost my mind?), as to what downsides the majority will accept in a good, but less-than-perfect, registration/tournament Rd. 1 Start procedure.
Bob A
Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Monday, 31st August, 2015, 12:32 PM.
Maybe we could get some consensus among Chesstalkers (??? have I lost my mind?),
Bob A
I believe you have answered your own question correctly. :)
Your making it too complicated. Multiple registration desks and start times?
Holy crap, that isn't feasible.
Keep it simple: 1 registration desk, 1 start time.
The terms & conditions of a tournaments are the prerogative of the organizers. They are free to listen too (or ignore) the comments and suggestions of their players. Any suggestion that tournament conditions can be (or should be) somehow "negotiated" with chess talkers is just crazy. Organizers are better served talking amongst themselves as to what works and what doesn't.
Last edited by Bob Gillanders; Monday, 31st August, 2015, 02:26 PM.
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