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It is complete BS/lies. I have no any conflict with Anton. You can ask him or Mr. Plotkin if you want. And I don't care if there is Hansen in the team or not. As I said it was always big honour for me to represent Canada.
There is absolutely no conflict with Anton. They have really good and respectful attitude to one another.
Unfortunately, the conflict between Bator and Eric really exists and actually this site Chesstalk is one of the main reasons for this conflict. However, during last Olympiad we were able to manage it pretty well. E.Hansen performed close to his own rating, slightly below 2600. B.Sambuev gained few rating points; his wins in last 2 rounds were extremely important for our team.
That you are willing to respond to this on an open board is good enough proof for me. Might be good to address it on the French side, if you are so inclined. Mathieu Cloutier has defended your honour considerably and consistently in the thread to his credit. I'm not going to dig into this anymore then, I think there might be a bigger issue here. This is starting to look really unfair to you.
Mavros
Yeah, I forwarded Bator's position just so it's clear.
Of course we don't know everything and can only speculate, but it's a shame that skill and recent performances clearly weren't the only deciding factors.
There is absolutely no conflict with Anton. They have really good and respectful attitude to one another.
Unfortunately, the conflict between Bator and Eric really exists and actually this site Chesstalk is one of the main reasons for this conflict. However, during last Olympiad we were able to manage it pretty well. E.Hansen performed close to his own rating, slightly below 2600. B.Sambuev gained few rating points; his wins in last 2 rounds were extremely important for our team.
I may be reading too much into your post but are you saying that Bator was not asked to be on the team because of Eric Hansen?
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
From Mavros Whissell post. "And Kovalyov, seriously? I don't think he should be on the team at all. He barely plays in Canada and would probably switch teams at the drop of the hat if it suited his purposes. If you want to put Alexandre in, replace Kovalyov with him."
It's not the first time (probably also not the last one) I read here very negative posts about Anton. Definitely, he didn't deserve this kind of attitude. It's not his fault that he was not burn here but immigrated twice with his family from Ukraine to Argentina and from Argentina to Canada.
It's not his fault that his transfer from Argentinian federation to CFC was very slow. You know, it's not easy to transfer 2600+ active GM. It was much faster with E.Bareev because of his resent inactivity.
It's not Anton's fault that he currently spends more time in USA as a student. Canadian universities don't provide any support for chess players.
It's not his fault that he doesn't play a lot in Canada. Where should he play? In Canadian Open with just 2 registered GMs with average rating around 2500? In Quebec Open with 8-round event and no norm opportunities? In Canadian Closed last year? But he qualified to World Cup on Pan-American championship (and he performed there really well, he passed 2700 and 2600+ players and lost only to Caruana in 3 round).
Anton's performance in Norway was close to 2700, I don't remember any other Canadian with such a strong result. He played all 11 games, lost only once, drew with Nakamura, Gelfand and Adams. What else do you need?
Last edited by Victor Plotkin; Friday, 27th May, 2016, 09:53 PM.
Not just too much... Chesstalk is a very dangerous place. You read something that I never wrote.
I apologize, Victor.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
Fair enough it is not Anton's fault. And it appears he is too strong to be in the Canadian Chess scene (tournaments too weak for him). But the purpose of a national team should be to represent players from Canada, who play in Canada.
I am not concerned if he is blameless, or if he is too strong for us. I hold nothing against him as a person. I cant assess his personality - I don't even know the guy. What I do know is that he is barely a part of the Canadian Chess scene. I think you may have misconstrued me - I don't believe in his eligibility. We are talking about eligibility not performance from my view. If you reread my post, nowhere do I attack Anton or am I negative about his ability. It is way beyond my own to say. However I do reserve the right to say this player is barely a representative of Canada, as amazing as a player as he is. I am not so interested in winning as much as having players from Canada who play in Canada get their fair shake. Otherwise it can be whatever flavour of the year for who knows how long before they leave, or the next change. You should have to pay your dues in time living and/or playing here. The team should be Canadian, including Russian-Canadian, French-Canadian, English-Canadian, (2nd gen Cypriot-Canadian? lol... water boy) and whatever other Nationality we come from. It has to do with 1) time and 2) activity in addition to rating. Anton is just short on these first two while we have a lot of other (yes weaker) players who may never get an opportunity more than once for this type of thing. For Anton, from what you describe, there are signs he will be in high level tournaments without the Olympiad anyway for many years to come.
I understand the desire to win is a good one, especially for a team captain. And I think you connect ability/rating directly to eligibility, which the CFC and most clearly reflect too. I don't blame you for this either, but I am concerned that we are just a mercenary hiring country. We need to start raising and supporting our own champions, whether they have immigrated here or not doesn't matter. Perhaps the approach of going for the strongest team possible will create the buzz to help initiate a stronger chess environment in Canada. I would rather approach the other way, by rewarding local Canadian players who have strived in this environment. Bator is an example of this, and he is an immigrant, but definitely a Canadian chess player. That he was proud to be on the team is HUGE.
In the same way I favour having Lesiege play over Anton. He is more active than Anton (recent tournaments) and he is Canadian.
Who cares if the US has Wesley So? Their chess system did not create this player. Nakamura is a different storey, although now he has taken a back seat to So and even more notably Caruana.
I read a lot of posts on this issue on the French side of CT, but my French isn't good enough to want to get involved in the discussion there. I saw you had a lot of posts in it, and maybe you could help me with something I don't understand about that thread.
It seemed to me that almost all of the discussion was about whether Alex or Bator was the better candidate for the Olympiad Team.
Since noone was willing to make a case for Alex, the issue moved to speculation about why Bator was not chosen, and that spun into discussions about whether Bator gets along with other players and also about whether Alex or Bator is "from Quebec"... a phrase which seems to have more than one meaning... and some people pointing out that Maili-Jade is also on the Olympiad Team and she's from Quebec.*
But it seems to me that's only one part of the problem with the committee's choice. In my opinion, Razvan Preotu is also clearly a better choice than Alex: he plays better and he plays more often and his rating is higher. Also, if anyone thought it was relevant, they could argue that he should be on the team because he has 2 GM norms and the Olympiad is an excellent opportunity to make a third. But no posts that I saw on the French CT mention Razvan.
Why do you suppose the discussion has been all "Alex or Bator" rather than "Alex or Razvan"... or "Bator or Razvan"?
*BTW: Eric Hansen has lived in Montreal (for about a year I think); so I suppose some people might count him as another Quebec player on the Olympiad Team.... but I didn't see any posts about that in the French CT thread about the Olympiad Team.
PS: thanks to Hal Bond for pointing out that Bareev has played more than the minimum number of games, since he played in the Millionaire Chess, which I'd forgotten, even though I was watching it online as saw EB go very far before getting KO-ed in the playoffs.
Fair enough it is not Anton's fault. And it appears he is too strong to be in the Canadian Chess scene (tournaments too weak for him). But the purpose of a national team should be to represent players from Canada, who play in Canada.
I am not concerned if he is blameless, or if he is too strong for us. I hold nothing against him as a person. I cant assess his personality - I don't even know the guy. What I do know is that he is barely a part of the Canadian Chess scene. I think you may have misconstrued me - I don't believe in his eligibility. We are talking about eligibility not performance from my view. If you reread my post, nowhere do I attack Anton or am I negative about his ability. It is way beyond my own to say. However I do reserve the right to say this player is barely a representative of Canada, as amazing as a player as he is. I am not so interested in winning as much as having players from Canada who play in Canada get their fair shake. Otherwise it can be whatever flavour of the year for who knows how long before they leave, or the next change. You should have to pay your dues in time living and/or playing here. The team should be Canadian, including Russian-Canadian, French-Canadian, English-Canadian, (2nd gen Cypriot-Canadian? lol... water boy) and whatever other Nationality we come from. It has to do with 1) time and 2) activity in addition to rating. Anton is just short on these first two while we have a lot of other (yes weaker) players who may never get an opportunity more than once for this type of thing. For Anton, from what you describe, there are signs he will be in high level tournaments without the Olympiad anyway for many years to come.
I understand the desire to win is a good one, especially for a team captain. And I think you connect ability/rating directly to eligibility, which the CFC and most clearly reflect too. I don't blame you for this either, but I am concerned that we are just a mercenary hiring country. We need to start raising and supporting our own champions, whether they have immigrated here or not doesn't matter. Perhaps the approach of going for the strongest team possible will create the buzz to help initiate a stronger chess environment in Canada. I would rather approach the other way, by rewarding local Canadian players who have strived in this environment. Bator is an example of this, and he is an immigrant, but definitely a Canadian chess player. That he was proud to be on the team is HUGE.
In the same way I favour having Lesiege play over Anton. He is more active than Anton (recent tournaments) and he is Canadian.
Who cares if the US has Wesley So? Their chess system did not create this player. Nakamura is a different storey, although now he has taken a back seat to So and even more notably Caruana.
Mavros
Mavros,
Really, we have different opinion about it. I understand your position. The main reason I replied to your post was your phrase "switch teams at the drop of the hat if it suited his purposes", which looks too negative in my opinion.
Indeed, I do believe that the main goal of the selection process is to send the strongest possible team and my goal as a team captain is to maximize performance for our team.
I read a lot of posts on this issue on the French side of CT, but my French isn't good enough to want to get involved in the discussion there. I saw you had a lot of posts in it, and maybe you could help me with something I don't understand about that thread.
It seemed to me that almost all of the discussion was about whether Alex or Bator was the better candidate for the Olympiad Team.
Hi John,
I understand your hesitation. French is not an easy language, even with some of the guys for whom it's their first language. Lots of misunderstanding in that thread.
But one thing I want to make sure is clear: a good majority of chess fans agree that Sambuev is the better player right now. And a small (and might I say nostalgic) minority will cheer because the "native" GM Alexandre Lesiège was selected.
I'm just stating the facts here and not talking about anyone specifically.
My only take is that they should assemble the best possible team. Period. Two guys don't get along? They either resolve the issue or both stay home. As we've seen, the 'issue' doesn't seem to be on Bator Sambuev's side.
So what's the problem, really? I don't know and I don't want to injustly accuse anyone here. But clearly, some considerations other than skill and recent results got in the way.
*BTW: Eric Hansen has lived in Montreal (for about a year I think); so I suppose some people might count him as another Quebec player on the Olympiad Team.... but I didn't see any posts about that in the French CT thread about the Olympiad Team.
Regarding Eric Hansen and Anton Kovalyov (and obviously Bator Sambuev): my take is that they can call themselve québécois if they want to. I don't care either way, but I certainly won't deny them the right to do so. I lived as an expat for two years and I know it's a very delicate situation. You still have a strong attachement to where you come from, but don't want to be left out either. It's not always easy to handle.
I did say so on the French board and my feeling is that a majority agrees. Didn't get any negative feedback.
So yeah, that's basically the two solitudes in action.
Last edited by Mathieu Cloutier; Saturday, 28th May, 2016, 12:29 AM.
Ok Victor this is a fair point. It is just conjecture on my part, which is an error. I also don't believe in personal attacks - these are pointless. So I removed the "drop of the hat" comment from my original post. I hope Anton is proud to play for Canada and wish you and your team success.
I was speaking from my frame of reference. I also feel generally Canadians overlook the richness of prior Canadian chess personalities/accomplishments/impact, and of course the list is long, from my mentor IM Paul Vaitonis (prior Lithuanian and Canadian Champion), to important viewpoints such as IM Jean Hebert (prior Canadian Champion). Also, of course, players who were pointed out as "world class" potential such as IM Bryon Nickoloff (by GM Paul Keres), or GM Mark Bluvshtein (by GM Lev Psakhis). From an educational perspective, Larry Bevand is likely top of the (my) list.
As a chess fan in Canada. I would hope to see Canada sends the strongest 5 players. The simple method (less controversial), in my opinion would be only based on rating (for players who meet the number of games played requirement).
Based on the above, the 2016 Olympics Team would then be:
1. GM E.Bareev 2675--2708--2691.5
2. GM A.Kovalyov 2623--2653--2638
3. GM E.Hansen 2586--2648--2617
4. GM B.Sambuev 2546--2666-2606.
5. GM K.Spraggett 2543--2618--2580.5.
If any of the above players decline invitation due to any reasons, the invitation moves on the the next in line, also by rating:
6. IM R.Preotu 2468--2647--2557.5
7. GM A.LeSiege 2528--2577--2552.5
8. IM N.Noritsyn 2466--2601--2533.5
9. IM A.Hambleton 2450--2606--2528
Forget the Canadian Champion, forget the Selection Committee, just send TOP PLAYERS !!
As a chess fan in Canada. I would hope to see Canada sends the strongest 5 players. The simple method (less controversial), in my opinion would be only based on rating (for players who meet the number of games played requirement).
Based on the above, the 2016 Olympics Team would then be:
1. GM E.Bareev 2675--2708--2691.5
2. GM A.Kovalyov 2623--2653--2638
3. GM E.Hansen 2586--2648--2617
4. GM B.Sambuev 2546--2666-2606.
5. GM K.Spraggett 2543--2618--2580.5.
If any of the above players decline invitation due to any reasons, the invitation moves on the the next in line, also by rating:
6. IM R.Preotu 2468--2647--2557.5
7. GM A.LeSiege 2528--2577--2552.5
8. IM N.Noritsyn 2466--2601--2533.5
9. IM A.Hambleton 2450--2606--2528
Forget the Canadian Champion, forget the Selection Committee, just send TOP PLAYERS !!
And how long would it take after one did this to have someone on this board start with the "He resigned/took a draw to allow x to gain a few points to get on the team?" and other similar charges! Every game that could point to some skullduggery would be called into question. Not saying your idea isn't OK, just that this board will always find something to carp about!
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