If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Policy / Politique
The fee for tournament organizers advertising on ChessTalk is $20/event or $100/yearly unlimited for the year.
Les frais d'inscription des organisateurs de tournoi sur ChessTalk sont de 20 $/événement ou de 100 $/année illimitée.
You can etransfer to Henry Lam at chesstalkforum at gmail dot com
Transfér à Henry Lam à chesstalkforum@gmail.com
Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
General Guidelines
---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
Some Basics
1. Under Board "Frequently Asked Questions" (FAQs) there are 3 sections dealing with General Forum Usage, User Profile Features, and Reading and Posting Messages. These deal with everything from Avatars to Your Notifications. Most general technical questions are covered there. Here is a link to the FAQs. https://forum.chesstalk.com/help
2. Consider using the SEARCH button if you are looking for information. You may find your question has already been answered in a previous thread.
3. If you've looked for an answer to a question, and not found one, then you should consider asking your question in a new thread. For example, there have already been questions and discussion regarding: how to do chess diagrams (FENs); crosstables that line up properly; and the numerous little “glitches” that every new site will have.
4. Read pinned or sticky threads, like this one, if they look important. This applies especially to newcomers.
5. Read the thread you're posting in before you post. There are a variety of ways to look at a thread. These are covered under “Display Modes”.
6. Thread titles: please provide some details in your thread title. This is useful for a number of reasons. It helps ChessTalk members to quickly skim the threads. It prevents duplication of threads. And so on.
7. Unnecessary thread proliferation (e.g., deliberately creating a new thread that duplicates existing discussion) is discouraged. Look to see if a thread on your topic may have already been started and, if so, consider adding your contribution to the pre-existing thread. However, starting new threads to explore side-issues that are not relevant to the original subject is strongly encouraged. A single thread on the Canadian Open, with hundreds of posts on multiple sub-topics, is no better than a dozen threads on the Open covering only a few topics. Use your good judgment when starting a new thread.
8. If and/or when sub-forums are created, please make sure to create threads in the proper place.
Debate
9. Give an opinion and back it up with a reason. Throwaway comments such as "Game X pwnz because my friend and I think so!" could be considered pointless at best, and inflammatory at worst.
10. Try to give your own opinions, not simply those copied and pasted from reviews or opinions of your friends.
Unacceptable behavior and warnings
11. In registering here at ChessTalk please note that the same or similar rules apply here as applied at the previous Boardhost message board. In particular, the following content is not permitted to appear in any messages:
* Racism
* Hatred
* Harassment
* Adult content
* Obscene material
* Nudity or pornography
* Material that infringes intellectual property or other proprietary rights of any party
* Material the posting of which is tortious or violates a contractual or fiduciary obligation you or we owe to another party
* Piracy, hacking, viruses, worms, or warez
* Spam
* Any illegal content
* unapproved Commercial banner advertisements or revenue-generating links
* Any link to or any images from a site containing any material outlined in these restrictions
* Any material deemed offensive or inappropriate by the Board staff
12. Users are welcome to challenge other points of view and opinions, but should do so respectfully. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Posts and threads with unacceptable content can be closed or deleted altogether. Furthermore, a range of sanctions are possible - from a simple warning to a temporary or even a permanent banning from ChessTalk.
Helping to Moderate
13. 'Report' links (an exclamation mark inside a triangle) can be found in many places throughout the board. These links allow users to alert the board staff to anything which is offensive, objectionable or illegal. Please consider using this feature if the need arises.
Advice for free
14. You should exercise the same caution with Private Messages as you would with any public posting.
I couldn't find the article in any of the 1982 or 1983 issues (at least it wasn't listed in the Table of Contents at the front of each issue). If you can get a more accurate date, I could probably scan (or photograph) the article.
Hi Hugh:
That is the info Sascha Starr gave me in his first response.....maybe he was just going from memory and got some facts wrong?
Hopefully he may be following this thread from time to time, and can check with Nava on the details. I would love to look at the article, as I'm sure a number of Canadian players would. Nava still does play here in Toronto, from time to time.
I'm pretty sure Denis Allan has a copy of the magazine containing this article, does anybody has a way to contact him?
Yes Sasha, I do have it somewhere, not sure where, but could probably find it. I seldom look at Chesstalk but apparently picked a good time. Nava's article was based largely on a study from John Hopkins (university or hospital?) which reached a number of conclusions about gender differences from studying x thousands of kids over several years. One I recall is that males occupy a wider range on the intellectual spectrum - more male geniuses and more male retards. Those conclusions were ahead of their time, before actual differences in brain structure were found. Now just searching "gender brain differences" will produce a wealth of material. The major difference is that the female brain uses both sides for verbal ability, the mail brain only the left side. It had been known for decades that females recovered more quickly from loss of verbal ability caused by certain brain injuries and now the reason is known. A Hamilton neurologist, I believe named Sandra Wittleson, so renowned as to have a piece of Einstein's brain, years ago wrote on this subject, base on the examination of the brains of deceased persons. The most significant finding is that gay males have a female brain. That reminded me of Reuben Fine's book, I think called The Psychology of Chess. Fine was a Freudian psychologist, a think now an endangered, if not extinct species. My recollection is that he stated that there were no gay GMs (though not using the word gay), and explained that in Freudian terms, as he also explained the lack of strong women players. Although his explanation is almost certainly wrong, his observation of the lack of gay GMs was probably correct.
Hormones also appear to be a factor. One study showed that male rats run mazes better than female rats, until the females are injected with male hormones, and then perform equally. I did have a few books on these issues, probably still do.
I think Nava's article appeared in one of the 1983 issues of En Passant.
Nava's article was intended to explain the reasons for, and value of, separate competition. Some male players resented funding going to send women to international events, in particular the Chess Olympics. It was her article which started my interest in the matter, and I have no doubt she was correct. My own experience with working with junior players about twenty years ago, in particular Stefanie Chu and the Benggawans, and watching many others, including Hazel Smith, was that they played almost equally to the boys until about age 13 or 14, then started to fall behind.
There is much more that could be written, but those who simply do not want to believe in gender brain differences will not believe.
Denis, thank you very much for your very informative post. With all the scientific data available one has to have some common sence: almost complete absence of women in the top 100 players...
Could I ask you to send me a copy of Nava's article to alexander.starr@chesssupersitecorp.com ? Would really appreciate it! Or you can contact me at 647-964-4556.
Last edited by Sasha Starr; Sunday, 10th April, 2016, 09:00 PM.
Nava's original article was published in CCE #58 (Jan-Feb, 1983). It's a short article, so if anyone is interested, I could easily retype it and post it.
Nava's original article was published in CCE #58 (Jan-Feb, 1983). It's a short article, so if anyone is interested, I could easily retype it and post it.
Hi Hugh:
I wouldn't mind getting it.....it is an early Canadian submission on this perennial topic of "women & chess"....IF it is not too much work. Or you could just send me a photocopy of it. E-mail me if this is a better option and I'll give you the address. Thanks.
The Nava's writing Reference: WIM Shterenberg, Nava(1983 1-2 #58）Nava Chess Canada Echecs Bulletin ISSN 0225.7351 pp 45-46.
You can download the pdf file.
Last edited by William Yuan; Sunday, 10th April, 2016, 11:41 PM.
Thanks William for all the time and effort you took to scan and post, and thanks Nava! Your words ring as true today as they did 30+ years ago. Plus ça change... :)
Interesting that this thread is (currently) composed of men's opinion(s) of this topic - as of this moment, no women have commented here on this issue.
I wonder if it is known how the women actually feel about this issue? Perhaps their perspective might be different depending on age (teenager versus young woman) or skill level? Obviously Judit Polgar and Hou Yifan are strong enough to compete in Open tournaments but that doesn't seem to be the case for more than a handful of women.
Interesting that this thread is (currently) composed of men's opinion(s) of this topic - as of this moment, no women have commented here on this issue.
I wonder if it is known how the women actually feel about this issue? Perhaps their perspective might be different depending on age (teenager versus young woman) or skill level? Obviously Judit Polgar and Hou Yifan are strong enough to compete in Open tournaments but that doesn't seem to be the case for more than a handful of women.
I've been told the Ct "culture" drives women chess players off..........almost never does any women player ever make a comment here (At most a few in the last 10 years?).
This is why it is only males discussing an issue critical to the future of women's chess. Would be nice if the CFC Women's Coordinator (Not sure who that is now), might carry this information/debate to where women chess players could discuss it?
Interesting that this thread is (currently) composed of men's opinion(s) of this topic - as of this moment, no women have commented here on this issue.
That's pretty well true of virtually every thread on Chess Talk on Women's chess. I suppose I should add that requiring ChessTalkers to post under their own name has improved things somewhat, as has a period of moderation (for which I will claim some credit), but, by and large, few women post here and fewer even bother to engage threads like this one.
Kinda reminds me of a Saudi Women's Conference.
Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.
Interesting that this thread is (currently) composed of men's opinion(s) of this topic - as of this moment, no women have commented here on this issue.
I wonder if it is known how the women actually feel about this issue? Perhaps their perspective might be different depending on age (teenager versus young woman) or skill level? Obviously Judit Polgar and Hou Yifan are strong enough to compete in Open tournaments but that doesn't seem to be the case for more than a handful of women.
The irony is that some of the posters here were at a one point or another in a strong position to impact on female chess players in a meaningful, positive fashion and were either incapable of doing so or unwilling to do so. Leadership and vision in this area has often been lacking.
Last edited by Duncan Smith; Thursday, 14th April, 2016, 01:31 PM.
I've been told the Ct "culture" drives women chess players off..........almost never does any women player ever make a comment here (At most a few in the last 10 years?).
This is why it is only males discussing an issue critical to the future of women's chess. Would be nice if the CFC Women's Coordinator (Not sure who that is now), might carry this information/debate to where women chess players could discuss it?
Bob A
Bob, with all due respect, what is this obsession you have with women's chess? Leave it alone. Rationalize your behaviour any way you want but it remains, as R.P. said, a little bit weird.
"We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
"Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
"If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey
This is why it is only males discussing an issue critical to the future of women's chess. Would be nice if the CFC Women's Coordinator (Not sure who that is now), might carry this information/debate to where women chess players could discuss it?
Bob A
Juri is a face to face or phone person and not an internet person which is probably just as well. Most women won't touch Chesstalk with a ten foot pole because there is a high probablility that they will get caught up in exchanges with an insane person. Nothing gets decided on Chesstalk. You seem to want to change the status quo. I don't think chess can be considered part of the mainstream if it casts off 51% of the Canadian population which is, in effect, what you want to do.
Tweet
Comment