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The Chess`n Math Association had brick work done on our headquarters in Montreal 2 years ago. The company that did the work went bankrupt a year later. Today, I received a letter in the mail from the CSST (the Quebec equivalent of the Workplace Safety Insurance Board - WSIB). It turns out that the company has not made remittences to this government agency since the end of 2011. The result...well...we have to pay what they did not pay! Is this the law in the rest of Canada or this a Quebec thing?
Of course the obvious question...if a company has not remitted for so many years and the agency took no action...why should we be responsible...
The Chess`n Math Association had brick work done on our headquarters in Montreal 2 years ago. The company that did the work went bankrupt a year later. Today, I received a letter in the mail from the CSST (the Quebec equivalent of the Workplace Safety Insurance Board - WSIB). It turns out that the company has not made remittences to this government agency since the end of 2011. The result...well...we have to pay what they did not pay! Is this the law in the rest of Canada or this a Quebec thing?
Of course the obvious question...if a company has not remitted for so many years and the agency took no action...why should we be responsible...
Larry
NO idea about PQ, but the WSIB here in Ontario is a complete joke in all respects as near as I can tell.
They make up their rules as they blunder along...
In your case, the CSST have to go after someone for their money and you (C&M) are the last player standing!!
Of course the obvious question...if a company has not remitted for so many years and the agency took no action...why should we be responsible...
Larry
Apparently, it's a company's responsibility to verify that contractors are up to date on these things. Big companies do that all the time when they have to hire external contractors.
A little harsh for your specific case, as it was only brick work on the building of a relatively small, non-profit org. I agree that the CSST should be verifying that kind of stuff automatically. They're the ones having all the information in hand, not you.
Hi Larry, this might be a scam, or a claim with no legislative teeth behind it. It's unbelievable they would/could go after end customers. Are all customers paying a mini-share?!
Many questions come to mind: When exactly did your contractor go bankrupt? Why has in taken the CSST so long to come to your door? Surely this contractor did work for other people at other locations so are they too being asked to pay? Has the CSST collected any monies to date in this matter? These are not unreasonable questions to ask of the CSST. You should of course ask of the CSST who they report to in government. I think they have to tell you that. Write a letter of outrage to that person asking the same questions as above. Whether that person is a politician or a civil servant doesn’t matter, they won’t want to deal with it and may decide to let it slide. In any case you should ask for a detailed invoice for the costs in dispute, and then dispute it line by line. Suggest strongly that before you pay anything you will have to consult with your lawyers (the threat is stronger than the execution). Make yourself annoying but be polite. When the amount the CSST hopes to recover becomes less than the aggravation you deliver the problem may resolve itself.
Liability of owner under Construction Lien Act for contribution of
employer to accident fund
131. In the case of a work or service performed by an employer in any
of the industries for the time being included in Schedule 1 for which
the employer would be entitled to a lien under the Construction Lien
Act, it is the duty of the owner as defined by that Act to see that
any sum that the employer is liable to contribute to the accident fund
is paid and, if any such owner fails to do so, the owner is personally
liable to pay it to the Board, and the Board has the like powers and
is entitled to the like remedies for enforcing payment as it possesses
or is entitled to in respect of an assessment. R.S.O. 1990, c. W.11,
s. 131.
The law on liens is found in the applicable legislation so is not a
“made up as they blunder along...”. Most such liens are based on the
original mechanics lien legislation from 1873 and the law of
construction liens is probably one of the most codified areas of law
there is. I admit however that even though I have practiced law for
thirty five years I never gave advice on this topic and got experts to
give advice for my clients. Generally on construction projects there
would be a holdback to ensure that liens will not apply or clearances
certificates are obtained before payment.
Ontario has a site which allows property owners to check before payment:
The way I understand it is that the owner of the place where the work is being done is ultimately responsible. And it makes sense in many cases. For example, a small contractor comes to do some work on a huge construction site. It's the owner's responsibility to make sure everyone is insured while on site.
But I do agree it looks really dumb when applied to brick work for a relatively small building owned by a non-profit organization. Maybe they're stretching the applicability of the law there, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're not either.
A few additional points then: 1) The Ontario law may say one thing, the Quebec law another. The CSST should be able to direct you to (what they believe to be) the applicable legislation. Then you may make a business man’s decision. 2) There is also the laws pertaining to bankruptcy. The contractor was initally liable re these payments. He declared bankruptcy. His creditors don’t then automatically have a right to chase after others. 3) I know a lot of property owners don’t bother too much with leins. They have to be cleared if you want to sell the property, but in the meantime… Again, a business man’s decision. 4) There is always a right of appeal. The CSST likely has an obligation to tell you how to lodge an appeal. The late arrival of this bill could be grounds.
But at the end of the day you must decide how much your time is worth. These matters can burn up a lot of your time. The CSST must likewise put a value on its time. Perhaps a settlement can be reached.
The Chess`n Math Association had brick work done on our headquarters in Montreal 2 years ago. The company that did the work went bankrupt a year later. Today, I received a letter in the mail from the CSST (the Quebec equivalent of the Workplace Safety Insurance Board - WSIB). It turns out that the company has not made remittences to this government agency since the end of 2011. The result...well...we have to pay what they did not pay! Is this the law in the rest of Canada or this a Quebec thing?
Of course the obvious question...if a company has not remitted for so many years and the agency took no action...why should we be responsible...
Larry
This looks like a case for «La Facture» or JE. The Quebec Government has the bad attitude that somebody must pay and they don't care who pays or if this is fair. If a tenant fails to pay his Hydro Québec bill, the landlord is legally responsible for the payment even if the tenant has failed to pay his rent for the last 6 months. It is the Law and no effort has been made to change it.
I am surprised that they go after CMA without even knowing how much they will get from the bankruptcy. Off course, you should check that it is not a scam and consult a lawyer but according to their web site http://www.csst.qc.ca/employeurs/ass...onformite.aspx they can even go after all CMA Borad Members personally if CMA fails to pay.
Bureaucracies will often over reach. It is often a good idea to look at the actual laws and what they say in addition to the information on the bureaucracy's websites. The thing to remember is that they are looking for the low hanging fruit and the people who are willing to let themselves be bullied and cowed. They really don't like to get into situations where they can be shown to have less teeth than they pretend to have, especially if this leads to other people who were previously cowed acting up. A good lawyer is helpful though not always absolutely necessary.
Always you have to do a cost/benefit analysis and determine whether it is worth going to the mattresses over. If what they are doing is patently unfair then publicity and involving politicians at the relevant level will probably get you the outcome you want.
It's well known across Canada that the construction industry in the province of Quebec has had a high degree of corruption for many years. Multiple investigations and scandals have enveloped organized crime figures, politicians and construction company management, at all levels.
I have a couple of pieces of advice for you:
1) Contact a high-quality Quebec-based lawyer, who successfully specializes in this field of Quebec law, and be prepared to pay for the advice you need. It may be that federal law comes into play in certain respects with the case, in which case you would likely be on firmer ground in terms of avoiding the worst.
2) Contact the non-chess media in Montreal with your story. You have considerable cachet as the founder of the Chess 'N Math Association, having done outstanding community development work, through chess, for several decades. This is a story with a wide potential appeal outside chess circles, and it is time to draw upon your fine reputation and get the media to assist you. Who knows, there may be other people in similar situations, who could benefit from the wider exposure and coverage that media investigation may bring. This is shameful behaviour by Quebec government agencies.
I wish you well in resolving it, with a minimum of cost and anxiety. :)
The Chess`n Math Association had brick work done on our headquarters in Montreal 2 years ago. The company that did the work went bankrupt a year later. Today, I received a letter in the mail from the CSST (the Quebec equivalent of the Workplace Safety Insurance Board - WSIB). It turns out that the company has not made remittences to this government agency since the end of 2011. The result...well...we have to pay what they did not pay! Is this the law in the rest of Canada or this a Quebec thing?
Of course the obvious question...if a company has not remitted for so many years and the agency took no action...why should we be responsible...
Larry
Seeing advice to get a high quality lawyer, could you tell what kind of numbers you are dealing. Maybe you've already spent more time/money than the insurance is asking LOL
The amount is not huge but still I think it is crazy that we have to pay when the contractor has been deliquent and not us.
But it is the law...as absurd as it may be.
I will try to get the CSST to reconsider but I guess it will end up being a lesson learned and something to verify before we give a contract to an entrepreneur....and maybe by posting this, others will know the steps to take when dealing with contractors. Buyer beware :)
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