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All well and good except that you gave me this long story about the GMAT and LSAT being a better test and that testing facilities were more widely available for this particular test.This was simply an attempt to con me into entering an unwinnable bet.
No, I said the LSAT was a better test than the GMAT. I said nothing about the quality of the tests relative to other IQ tests.
Additionally, I said the only tests I know of where they issue the same test in multiple testing sites are the LSAT and the GMAT. This is simply a fact. Those are the only two I know of. Are there others? You haven't mentioned any. Understand that I'm talking about writing the exact same test simultaneously in different cities, not simply writing the same type of test simultaneously in different cities.
But most importantly, trying to con you? I admitted my bias up front.
Sorry that I only passively mentioned my bias and didn't spell it out for you like you were a stupid child. In the future I'll treat you how I would a stupid child. Happy now?
everytime it hurts, it hurts just like the first (and then you cry till there's no more tears)
Before proceeding down this path of his choosing it would probably make sense to insist that he rewrite these tests as they only provide a standardized score to compare the pool of current test takers.
Of course I'd rewrite the test. That's the whole premise of the bet. We'll write the exact same test. That means we'd both sit for, say, the June LSAT. We'd write the exact same test.
Did any of the non-dummies have trouble gathering that or was it just these two conservative "scholars" over here.
everytime it hurts, it hurts just like the first (and then you cry till there's no more tears)
Thanks! I'm actually about to move to Kansas City for a job with a wrongful convictions non-profit. Very excited. Thrilled to finally have the opportunity to put my money where my mouth is and start fighting for social justice.
everytime it hurts, it hurts just like the first (and then you cry till there's no more tears)
On the Mensa Test about 1/3 of my time was spent finding the word Banalities. That was about the only thing in that test that was really hard. The other test had two rows of letters where the top row of letters shared an attribute that if you turned the letters around sideways they looked the same and the bottom row of letters had an attribute that if you turned the letters upside down they were the same. You were then asked to find the next letter that would work for both rows. That question took me a while and then I noticed that the choice H shared both these attributes. I suspect that would be the only one you would have got wrong. About the only thing the tests prove is one's ability to look for patterns that might be outside of the norm. In my view that does not signify much at all.
...
First of all, I will second your opinion Sid that an ability to see patterns outside the norm isn't a definitive measure of intelligence, although it is a good quality to have. It can certainly lead to great success in many fields, even technical fields.
But secondly, I have news for you about the specific question you mention above. Both you and Mensa apparently have it wrong.
You see, the capital letter K in most fonts is NOT vertically symmetrical. If you flip it upside down in most fonts, it does NOT look the same. That breaks the whole question.
( The question read:
What letter is in the two cells marked * ?
M I X A Y O *
D C O X K I *
The choices were A, H, C, D, E, F or "I don't know". The correct answer, as evidenced by Sid getting 30/30, is "H". But the logic is faulty and makes the whole question faulty.
And by the way, the whole test is also faulty because one isn't told whether an answer of "I don't know" can be the correct answer, or is in fact any different from answering with a wrong choice. )
I took a screen shot of this post as I was writing it, because in the font used here, the capital letter K looks vertically symmetrical. But I pasted it into a paint program, isolate the letter K, enlarged it many times, and.... it is not vertically symmetrical. It appears to be so on the screen at normal size, but when enlarged, there is a very slight discrepancy. I did the same thing with the font used in the online Mensa test. Same result: vertically asymmetrical, even more noticeable than with the font used here.
Mensa didn't think about this. I did think about it as soon as I saw the letter K used in the question.
So does that make me "more intelligent" because I noticed it? No, that's not my point. My point is that even Mensa can distort the meaning of intelligence.
And in another aspect of the same topic, I don't think chess comes close to completely measuring intelligence. Poker involves many skills that don't even come into play in chess, and those skills are also part of overall intelligence.
Everyone talks about getting chess into school programs because of its benefits in developing young minds.... true enough. But poker can also teach skills that chess falls woefully short on.... skills that have much importance in the business world. Life is full of probabilities, and chess teaches virtually nothing on that, but poker is all about managing probabilities and risks with limited resources in a world where every move or play has very uncertain results.
Despite this, I don't think we will ever see poker as part of a school program. And yet if we did, I would bet.... indeed, I'd go "all in".... that we would produce more and better entrepreneurs as a result.
Addendum: I just realized that in the Mensa question I've mentioned, the capital letter Y is not horizontally symmetrical in many fonts. Here in this font, it looks like it may be, but in many fonts, capital Y is using a slanted upwards line met by a slanted downwards line -- not horizontally symmetrical.
Last edited by Paul Bonham; Sunday, 7th May, 2017, 03:40 AM.
Reason: Addendum
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
First of all, I will second your opinion Sid that an ability to see patterns outside the norm isn't a definitive measure of intelligence, although it is a good quality to have. It can certainly lead to great success in many fields, even technical fields.
But secondly, I have news for you about the specific question you mention above. Both you and Mensa apparently have it wrong.
You see, the capital letter K in most fonts is NOT vertically symmetrical. If you flip it upside down in most fonts, it does NOT look the same. That breaks the whole question.
( The question read:
What letter is in the two cells marked * ?
M I X A Y O *
D C O X K I *
The choices were A, H, C, D, E, F or "I don't know". The correct answer, as evidenced by Sid getting 30/30, is "H". But the logic is faulty and makes the whole question faulty.
And by the way, the whole test is also faulty because one isn't told whether an answer of "I don't know" can be the correct answer, or is in fact any different from answering with a wrong choice. )
I took a screen shot of this post as I was writing it, because in the font used here, the capital letter K looks vertically symmetrical. But I pasted it into a paint program, isolate the letter K, enlarged it many times, and.... it is not vertically symmetrical. It appears to be so on the screen at normal size, but when enlarged, there is a very slight discrepancy. I did the same thing with the font used in the online Mensa test. Same result: vertically asymmetrical, even more noticeable than with the font used here.
Mensa didn't think about this. I did think about it as soon as I saw the letter K used in the question.
So does that make me "more intelligent" because I noticed it? No, that's not my point. My point is that even Mensa can distort the meaning of intelligence.
And in another aspect of the same topic, I don't think chess comes close to completely measuring intelligence. Poker involves many skills that don't even come into play in chess, and those skills are also part of overall intelligence.
Everyone talks about getting chess into school programs because of its benefits in developing young minds.... true enough. But poker can also teach skills that chess falls woefully short on.... skills that have much importance in the business world. Life is full of probabilities, and chess teaches virtually nothing on that, but poker is all about managing probabilities and risks with limited resources in a world where every move or play has very uncertain results.
Despite this, I don't think we will ever see poker as part of a school program. And yet if we did, I would bet.... indeed, I'd go "all in".... that we would produce more and better entrepreneurs as a result.
Addendum: I just realized that in the Mensa question I've mentioned, the capital letter Y is not horizontally symmetrical in many fonts. Here in this font, it looks like it may be, but in many fonts, capital Y is using a slanted upwards line met by a slanted downwards line -- not horizontally symmetrical.
I wrote two online tests in an attempt to get a good sample of where I stood on this type of test before considering Ben's challenge. The question above was not on the Mensa Workout Quiz so that had nothing to do with getting 30 out of 30 on their quiz. The question was on the other test I sampled (that I am very sure I also got 100 percent on) and was the only question on that test that I found even remotely interesting. So Mensa did not get anything wrong. I gave fair warning to Ben that he would be wasting a thousand dollars with this stupid challenge. The only test I would do for Ben's challenge would be the IQ test that Mensa has its new member applicants take. I would not take the LSATs GMAT's or any other test. The fact that you had to magnify the font to see if it is truly symmetrical is a ridiculous exercise in splitting hairs. Get a life man!
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Sunday, 7th May, 2017, 01:31 PM.
Oh dear....I think you mean libel, lol! More silly work......
Interestingly Ben also used the term slander incorrectly earlier in this thread, you know, the guy with the perfect score in LSATs who apparently is now starting his career as a lawyer for the oppressed in Kansas. Looks like his LSAT score and his law degree and .50 cents might buy you a cup of coffee.
Oh dear....I think you mean libel, lol! More silly work......
Wow you must be his servant, the disinterested reader who is a 100-odd posts into the thread and decides to randomly jump in - right. Cutting me up for written vs. spoken. Good on you, its all the same to me. Lies.
Interestingly Ben also used the term slander incorrectly earlier in this thread, you know, the guy with the perfect score in LSATs who apparently is now starting his career as a lawyer for the oppressed in Kansas. Looks like his LSAT score and his law degree and .50 cents might buy you a cup of coffee.
I didn't say something was "slander." I said it was "akin to slander." You do know what the word "akin" means, right? Then again, you've demonstrated in this thread that you can't spell "existence," you don't know the difference between "then" and "than," and you apparently have difficulty reading multi-syllabic words such as "rantings." But go ahead, take more cheap shots at my lingual acumen, you semi-literate sympathizer to racists.
everytime it hurts, it hurts just like the first (and then you cry till there's no more tears)
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