2017 Canadian Championship

[John Brown]

Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

Why not Let both players be the champ. It would make the selection for the Olympic team far easier as two spots would be filled.

[Eric Gedajlovic]

Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

It makes no sense to me to appeal to the CFC first when the issue was during the tournament.

There are some questions it would be nice to hear the Arbiter speak to. According to an article on Chess.com Chief Arbiter Dénommée has declined to comment on what happened citing contractual obligations not to comment.

https://www.chess.com/news/view/cont...mpionship-5047

It would seem important to hear his explanation for

a) why additional Queens were not available?

b) whether he noticed that Sambuev had Nortisyn's Queen in his hand under the table?

c) and if not, whether that would have affected his actions especially with respect to FIDE rule 11.1 and 12.2? -

11.1 The players shall take no action that will bring the game of chess into disrepute.

12.2 The arbiter shall
a. ensure fair play.
b.act in the best interest of the competition.
c.ensure that a good playing environment is maintained.
d.ensure that the players are not disturbed.
e. supervise the progress of the competition.
f take special measures in the interests of disabled players and those who need medical attention.

http://www.fide.com/component/handbo...article&id=171

Another open question relates to d) why (according to) Noritsyn, he was directed to file his appeal with the CFC when a tournament appeals process was instituted?

http://www.fqechecs.qc.ca/cccc2017/c...l-CCCC2017.pdf

Hopefully, these matters will be cleared up in the coming days.

[John Brown]

Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

What will the ruling be for players who bring fidget spinners to tournaments? They will no longer fidget with pieces.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

.....Now - Is it holding/hiding/chewing a captured piece an infringement? Rules do not say anything what should be done with captured pieces, they are just removed from the board. There are no Geneva Conventions for them yet.

Frankly, I am surprised that in all these lengthy discussion about hiding a Queen or putting an inverted Rook on the promotion square, no one has mentioned that there may NOT BE a captured Queen available! The promoting player may still have his / her Queen on the board. The worst thing possible in that situation is that the player promoting must stop the clock and summon the arbiter to get a Queen. That is ridiculous, as it gives the opponent free time to think about a response. And what if the arbiter can't even FIND an extra Queen??? That would make for extreme embarrassment for the organizers!

Therefore, the following extra pieces should be available and in front of each player before starting any game: 2 extra Queens, and 1 extra of Rook, Bishop, and Knight. This kills 2 birds with 1 stone: it also gives players pieces to fidget with while thinking (if they need it).

Before beginning of any game, arbiters must ensure that these extra pieces are in place for all players. If a player doesn't have such extra pieces with his / her set, the organizers must have cheap plastic versions of them for sale at cost. Failure to purchase or otherwise obtain such extra pieces before starting the clock will cause forfeiture of the game. Eventually, these extra pieces in both colors would become part of every player's chess set.

Of course, I realize this will never become a FIDE rule....


Bator Sambuev's actions of holding (hiding) the Black Queen AND failing to mention this to the arbiter and insist that Nikolay be allowed to promote to the Queen is a stain on his chess career if he doesn't do something about it voluntarily.

[Rene Preotu]

Re: new FIDE rules July 1

Then it would have been a clear violation of the rules. The player can stop the clock, especially when he needs a piece to promote.

Emil Sutovsky has a post about this on his FB page https://www.facebook.com/emil.sutovs...nf&pnref=story

Samuel Sevian's father posted this:
My son once promoted his pawn and asked for the Queen, he was forfeited for an illegal move. The rule I guess is to stop the clock and ask for a piece before promotion.

[Fred Harvey]

Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

There is no cause to blame Bator for this.

Nonsense !

[Patrick Kirby]

Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

After seeing the u tube I think this game is the biggest joke in Canadian History. If Bator is holding the Queen and Nikolay had no way of finding it fast,then what the aribiters should have done is stop the clock ask Nikolay what did he want when he promoting to as the available queen was shuffled like a magician a distration to reach for a queen and let go of the hidden pieces but only after Nikolay has reached for a rook and find him his frigging queen.
The joke is that at top levels there should always be two queens at a board. Nikolay was framed, shammed. scammed or our right cheated in this game and it was done like a 3 card montey, a card sharks trick, a slight of hand or just plain cheating. I hope Bator is not going to train his kids to hold pieces so your opponent can not get to them. Nikolay played a gentleman's game. Bator in my opinion did not.

There is no cause to blame Bator for this. No way it was done intentionally on his part - like many people do he was fiddling with captured pieces while thinking over his moves. After Nikolai promoted, he dropped the Black queen he was holding and grabbed a White one to promote his own pawn, then the arbiter intervened. Everything happened within a few seconds and during an extremely high-tension moment in the game/ tournament situation.

All the fault lies with the arbiter for making a ridiculous ruling (not to mention not being prepared before the game with extra queens).

[Hugh Brodie]

Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

A controversy - similar in ways - arose in the 2008 US Women's championship which needed an Armageddon playoff game to decide the title. A lot of touching/moving pieces before the other player has pressed - with no arbiter intervention. Irina Krush reacts to her loss by sending her King across the room.

http://en.chessbase.com/post/us-wome...om-our-readers

[John Brown]

Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

After seeing the u tube I think this game is the biggest joke in Canadian History. If Bator is holding the Queen and Nikolay had no way of finding it fast,then what the aribiters should have done is stop the clock ask Nikolay what did he want when he promoting to as the available queen was shuffled like a magician a distration to reach for a queen and let go of the hidden pieces but only after Nikolay has reached for a rook and find him his frigging queen.
The joke is that at top levels there should always be two queens at a board. Nikolay was framed, shammed. scammed or our right cheated in this game and it was done like a 3 card montey, a card sharks trick, a slight of hand or just plain cheating. I hope Bator is not going to train his kids to hold pieces so your opponent can not get to them. Nikolay played a gentleman's game. Bator in my opinion did not.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: new FIDE rules July 1

Noritsyn might well have been forfeited for illegally stopping the clock.

Then it would have been a clear violation of the rules. The player can stop the clock, especially when he needs a piece to promote.

[Fred Harvey]

Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

I exposed Dénommée as an incompetent arbiter years ago.

This incident is simply more grist for the mill.

I repeat what I posted early in this thread.....nice to see people are finally getting to the real culprit! At least we have a picture of him taking pictures instead of doing his job. Hopefully no more gigs for him.....

Bator only realized what he was doing when all hell broke loose, and replaced the queen where it should have been all the timel He probably didn't appreciate that there was a known prat as referee, who royally screwed up?

[Alvah Mayo]

Re: 2017 Canadian Championship

It is a good thing (and an amazing thing) that there is a video of the entire game... Now all that is missing is any sort of statement from Bator Sambuev. On the chess.com report that is referenced in a separate thread, it was noted that the arbiter was IA Pierre Dénommée - in that report he is quoted as saying that "... due to contractual obligations, he cannot comment on the specifics of the incident."

It would be VERY useful to hear from Sambuev and Denommee but perhaps that will never happen?

I also note in the chess.com article it is stated:

"Noritsyn confirmed to Chess.com that he has filed an appeal to the Chess Federation of Canada, which has a National Appeals Committee for such cases. He referenced his queen being hidden and said FIDE rule 12.1 is a bit of a 'catchall' and states: 'The players shall take no action that will bring the game of chess into disrepute.'

He said he is 'agnostic' as to whether he thinks Sambuev was hiding the queen deliberately."

Of course only one person can know whether Sambuev was hiding the Queen deliberately.

I exposed Dénommée as an incompetent arbiter years ago.

This incident is simply more grist for the mill.

[Dan Scoones]

Re: new FIDE rules July 1

http://rules.fide.com/images/stories...Chess_2017.pdf Articles 7.5.3 & 4.

Well, that seems quite clear. The move is not complete until the promoted pawn has been replaced by a piece. I don't see anything about upside-down rooks, so it's obviously a simple consequence of the promotion rule. There is no such piece as an upside-down rook.

So the correct action by Noritsyn would have been to stop the clocks, summon an arbiter, and ask him or her to supply a Black queen. I wonder how that would have played out... if Sambuev had put the queen back on the board (as he did in the actual game). Noritsyn might well have been forfeited for illegally stopping the clock.

Any way you look at it, the whole mess was caused by the arbiters. And this is the Canadian Championship!

[Peter McKillop]

Re: new FIDE rules July 1

The new rules effective July 1 doesn't seem to include this. I could be wrong; I just couldn't find what you mentioned.

http://rules.fide.com/images/stories...Chess_2017.pdf

Articles 7.5.3 & 4.

[Nigel Hanrahan]

new FIDE rules July 1

By my understanding the latest FIDE tournament rules state that if a player promotes a pawn but does not replace it with a piece, the pawn is deemed to be a queen. Therefore it is not illegal to leave the promoted pawn on the board and play it as a queen. I wonder if someone with more up-to-date knowledge of the rules can confirm this.

The new rules effective July 1 doesn't seem to include this. I could be wrong; I just couldn't find what you mentioned.