The decline of Canadian chess?

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: The decline of Canadian chess?

I've always wondered why people become voting members (aka governors) if they don't try something to improve the CFC from within.

I left after all my initiatives and suggestions were exhausted. Maybe a new generation will pick up the torch.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: The decline of Canadian chess?

Long-term(?) wishes:

10. Get demographics of CFC members (e.g. get date of birth, if nothing else);
11. Provide list of top Senior players in Canada;
12. Improve appearance of CFC website, the face of the CFC (main page currently looks jumbled);
13. Might improve CFC Discussion Board, e.g. have specialized forums for non-Chess topics (compare e.g. OzChess, the Australian chess message board);
14. Provide some thing(s) for non-elite player adult CFC members (e.g. more funding for some types of local events);
15. Recreational player membership;
16. Encourage growth of Canadian chess clubs (e.g. more discounts);

10. Year of birth is probably sufficient.
11. We would need year of birth data on everyone first.
12. Not on my plate at the moment.
13. I don't think we need any global warming or Trump threads on the CFC forum. There are lots of other places where you can discuss that.
14. It is not possible for us to fund tournaments in any meaningful way without greatly increasing our fees if that is even desirable.
15. Great idea
16. Discount what? Memberships?

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: The decline of Canadian chess?

On discounts for clubs, there used to be one for books/supplies sold to them by the CFC, I think. It will be a while from this point in time, perhaps, before the CFC can be in a position to offer really big breaks to clubs on books/supplies. That's why I thought this is a long-term goal for the CFC to have. There might be other types of discounts that could be offered, too, depending on existing CFC services (e.g. if a chess server deal becomes available).

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: The decline of Canadian chess?

On discounts for clubs, there used to be one for books/supplies sold to them by the CFC, I think. It will be a while from this point in time, perhaps, before the CFC can be in a position to offer really big breaks to clubs on books/supplies. That's why I thought this is a long-term goal for the CFC to have. There might be other types of discounts that could be offered, too, depending on existing CFC services (e.g. if a chess server deal becomes available).

I don't think we will ever be in the book business again aside from possibly publishing books perhaps. The only area where I could see the CFC ever making money would be in equipment but again in our current circumstances it makes more sense to contract that out.

A chess server deal is available. There are all kinds of prominent server websites available and interested. We made a deal. We failed to deliver on our end. We didn't and don't have the volunteers or staff to run one.

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: The decline of Canadian chess?

Maybe there's the possibility that the CFC might one day negotiate an arrangement with Larry/(equipment supplier[s]) to allow the CFC to indirectly offer discounts to clubs (and perhaps their members).

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: The decline of Canadian chess?

17. Lots of [big] clubs helps promote team chess eventually too - could have team chess on internet as well;
18. Regain Charitable Status for CFC;
19. Improve CFC transparency (e.g. public pie chart of [necessary] CFC expenditures);
20. New class of Senior membership (discounted);
21. New class of Military membership (discounted);
22. Perhaps add new class of Women's membership (discounted);
23. Get any Provincial Associations not already relating to/affiliated with CFC into the fold somehow (Sask. is coming back now, at least);
24. CFC a force for chess education, e.g. core subject in schools;
25. Provide seperate Active and Blitz ratings;
26. Provide print CFC magazine again eventually;
27. Get a CFC physical office (and store) again eventually;
28. Besides chess books & equipment, CFC can sell e.g. T-shirts or perhaps even Canadian elite chess player [post]cards (with data);
29. Provide CFC Bughouse ratings eventually (perhaps same for Chess960, Crazyhouse & even other chess variants);
30. Eventually lower CFC membership fees (e.g. by $3?);
31. Eventually lower CFC rating fees (e.g. by $1?);
32. Revisit the CFC governance structure (e.g. have one member one vote), perhaps;
33. Have 10,000+ CFC members (my old target was to hope for 2,000+ once again).[/I]


Fwiw, link to Luther's 95 Theses ;):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety-five_Theses

17. I'm all for clubs. There is lots of chess on the internet. I think the best way to work with that is to use internet chess as a gateway to the real OTB thing.
18. We probably should have fought more to retain it but the hurdles to getting it back are significant. Unless a culture of generosity and donations suddenly overtakes us it is not that significant anyway because we never had very much in the way of donations which could be considered charitable in the many years when we were a charity.
19. We couldn't be any more transparent than we already are. Anyone can create a pie chart based on the latest financial statements. Getting financials in a timely manner is often a chore.
20. Memberships have to cover costs of doing business. If we offer everyone discounts what services do you suggest we discontinue to make it possible?
21. How about a free membership to active members of the military.
22. How about getting some more female members before we worry about discounts?
23. I am not aware of any provinces who are not affiliated in some way with the CFC.
24. There is a lack of manpower for this to happen. People are working on chess in schools all over the place in Canada. At this point I think it has to come from individuals who are best off not being overburdened by CFC interference.
25. There is no groundswell of desire for blitz ratings. Other than as a separate listing it would be hard to implement without redesigning the website and that would be expensive and time consuming well beyond what I would be willing to get involved in.
26. It will probably not ever happen again. The economics are impossible for such a small circulation publication.
27. It will never happen except perhaps as an online business contracted out. Do you know what real estate costs are these days? A physical office would only make sense with greatly increased revenues and expanded services. A chicken and egg problem.
28. My experiences with selling cups and t-shirts is that you lose money. We spent something like $4000 on cups at NAYCC which was pitched as a money making idea. We had no revenue from selling cups. The CFC will not be selling cups any time soon unless you want to buy NAYCC 2016 cups. ;)
29. Lots of work. No demand from the members. If we dilute our efforts with variants other than offering blitz and as fun distractions we would be nuts. I am not interested in variants. I am not interested in volunteering my time to promote or play variants. Those who like variants are welcome to do the work without our help.
30. Membership prices have gone down in real terms due to inflation. We have had no increases in many years. To reduce CFC membership prices we would have to cut services. Which services do you want to cut? The rating system? The Olympiad Team? The email magazine? Our website? Bob?
31. What are we willing to give up to pay for this? Presently my guess would be that this would entail a significant hole in our budget. What do you want to give up in order to make this a possibility?
32. Its not likely to happen any time soon. Just convincing the governors at the time to take the steps that enabled the CFC to survive at the time of our continuation crisis was a major effort which took about two years and almost collapsed at the last minute.
33. Still possible but it will take about 1000 volunteers.

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: The decline of Canadian chess?

The objections you raise are for goals I marked as probably long-term. Realizable in many cases only if and as things get more and more improved for the CFC. Discounts can be introduced one at a time if and when revenue rises sufficiently. In the case of chess variants, this is more workable in the beginning if & when a chess server is up and running, if variants can be added as an option (may not ever happen, I'll admit). At least presently, bughouse may be getting to the point of worth rating not too far in the future, maybe. How about my short-term goal suggestions for the CFC? I'll admit Neil's idea of asking CFC members en mass by email/newsletter if any might offer to administrate a CFC server might look unprofessional, but was it even considered?

[Neil Frarey]

Re: The decline of Canadian chess?

I'll admit Neil's idea of asking CFC members en mass by email/newsletter if any might offer to administrate a CFC server might look unprofessional, but was it even considered?

Remind me again ...why would it 'look unprofessional' to canvas the membership for CFC chess server admins?

Many non-profits draw from within their own ranks.

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: The decline of Canadian chess?

Attaching the request to an email (even if it delivers notice of the CFC newsletter, too) might look unprofessional, I thought.

On the other hand, mentioning the request to CFC members inside of the newsletter would probably be quite fine... perhaps the CFC once did that sort of thing within the print magazine long ago, at times.

[Neil Frarey]

Re: The decline of Canadian chess?

Attaching the request to an email (even if it delivers notice of the CFC newsletter, too) might look unprofessional, I thought.

On the other hand, mentioning the request to CFC members inside of the newsletter would probably be quite fine... perhaps the CFC once did that sort of thing within the print magazine long ago, at times.

Email templates, Mail Chimp is the one I use with my clients but there are others, have come a long long way ... including google analytics*. Some really stunning designs, I'm a minimalist myself, but they can now look and feel very tasteful. The major diff between a newsletter and an email is one of targeting. Front page of the CFC website is also valuable ;)

Anywho ...offer free membership to those who help.

BTW, I think it would be wise for the CFC to present a lengthy awareness of chess variations and how they are part of chess in Canada as a whole.

I wonder how the refurb of our national trophies is coming along ...what do you think Kev ...give 'em another decade or two?


* Chess Federation of Canada must become data driven.

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: The decline of Canadian chess?

Come to think of it, I could add national trophy refurbishing to my above wish list, but it's already rather long. I couldn't find all the space to credit everyone who might have helped inspire the list, sorry if anyone wanted to be. However, I intended it to be more food for thought that might be examined now and then, and I expect most people who get involved in organized chess will have their own ideas, and perhaps care for few other ones.

Getting to 10,000 CFC members will probably take some sort of business plan (fwiw, my list tried to salvage a number of the long-term plan ideas that were given by a committee about 5 years ago). Vlad's wished for 1,000 volunteers alone to make it happen is already almost half the CFC's present membership total. To get to 10,000 CFC members will also need more than hoped for restructuring of the CFC and/or organized chess in Canada, I fear. In any case, it's tough to carry out a long term plan when few CFC presidents are in for more than a year or two, and we're talking a target (10,000) that'll probably take at least 10 years.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: The decline of Canadian chess?

Are you talking about chess or a chess variant? If you have a means to present chess to make it more appealing I'm very much interested.

To help me answer those questions, I need to get an answer from you:

Would you consider chess960 to be a chess variant, or would you consider it as a new way to present chess?

Most people consider chess960 to be a chess variant. But all 960 opening positions are legal chess positions, irregardless of whether they could be arrived at via standard chess (they couldn't, except for the standard chess opening position).

We are not doing chess960, but if you view chess960 as a variant, then what we were going to be doing was a chess variant. If you view chess960 as a new way of presenting chess, then what we were going to be doing was a new way of presenting chess.

But then we made a decision to actually use a chess variant in place of standard chess, for very good reasons having to do with making the game more easily understood and followed and ENJOYED by non-chessplayers. This chess variant, however, is only half of the story.

But here's the key thing: the effort required for a standard chess player of reasonable rating, say 1600 and above, to transition to chess960 is probably equal to the effort for such a player to transition to our chess variant.

And standard chess still COULD be used in what we are doing. So if you are interested, as you say, in a new way to present standard chess, to make it more appealing, yes, we do have that.

Garland, I will PM you to give you more than that, but I hope you will first post an answer to the above question. And also mention why you are interested in a new way of presenting standard chess versus a chess variant. For example, shorter time controls are a new way of presenting chess. But will that alone get big numbers of non-chessplayers interested in watching chess? The evidence so far is a definite no.

How are things progressing on your previous release. Is it attracting interest? I haven't followed it much since the chessbase posting.

I did mention here that the variant known as SSCC (Switch Side Chain Chess) does not involve me in any way, except that I contribute work to it free of any compensation, simply because I'm interested in it. It is owned by a University in Malaysia where Dr. Azlan Iqbal, its inventor, is a professor of Computer Science. The last I heard, Azlan told me that many of the free versions had been downloaded, and a few of the premium versions had been sold. Exact numbers were not given.

I contributed an algorithm to detect the chains that are at the heart of the variant. That algorithm, however, did not make it into the Android / iOS app and that app is flawed, it doesn't always correctly identify such chains.

I am finishing up an SSCC problem position which I composed and which may soon be posted on chessbase.com, and for this article I am being helped by a 2400 rated chess player in Europe. This player, who has put his chess career on pause while he gains a university degree in physics, is also playing 2 correspondence games of Option Chess against me, we are just entering the middle game of each of the 2 games. An article of those 2 games may also appear on chessbase.com if Frederic Friedel agrees to publish it.

[Garland Best]

Re: The decline of Canadian chess?

Technically Chess960 is a variant, but one that we have held the occasional tournament for at the RA Chess club during my tenure as club president. So it's close enough that I was willing to give it a go on a tournament level. However the more the rules are changed from the original game, the more it is a variant.

[Erik Malmsten]

Re: The decline of Canadian chess?

I don't know if it has ever been done, but an idea for publicity for the CYCC/Canadian Open is to send an email out to all the past participants, chess clubs and all schools to announce a chess display contest. Encourage players to bring a display (1 or 2 Bristol boards) that has a chess theme. It could be a drawing, collage, a story, a biography of your favourite player or local champion, chess diagrams of favourite combos, opening variations, photos of your chess club or a list of the reasons why you enjoy chess. They will be displayed around the playing site and sponsors will donate prizes.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: The decline of Canadian chess?

Though it may be difficult to somehow motivate many more Canadian clubs and local organizers to go all-out to find significantly more newbie club & CFC members year after year (how do you contact all the clubs plus organizers, or know that they've got and liked the message?), I'd suggest that the CFC try to greatly improve itself from its current state, in steady incremental fashion if necessary (the CFC itself is the one thing the CFC can control). That way word may get around that Canada's national chess federation is getting (or has got) its act together, which may cause club and CFC membership levels to eventually swell for a number of years, perhaps for a long time to come. Fwiw, below is the list of 33 goals from my blog entry alluded to in the above quote (who knows, if they're nailed somewhere visible enough, a kind of reformation may be inspired eventually, even if not with all or any of these goals in mind):

[I]The following is based on a July 2017 chesstalk discussion forum post of mine:

I've looked back on many of my old wishes about what the CFC might strive for in future, and I'll recap them here:

Short-term wishes:

1. Have a server available for CFC members that's ready to be used (ask even CFC members if some might administer it);

We had Premium Chess but no one to administer it. I might have been able to do the administration in a normal year but it just so happened that we made the deal when I got involved in organizing CYCC, the Canadian Open and NAYCC. I just didn't have any additional time to spare.

2. Have a USCF-style rating floor (e.g. if you're ever 15xx you can't go below 1300 ever) - fights sandbagging & may slow rating stagnation/decline of individual players (good for business!?);

I personally like the idea of a floor though we would have to look at how it might affect rating inflation. I believe the rating auditor Paul Leblanc has said that he has looked at the idea.

3. Figure out how to promote chess better [as exciting] {cultural activity} - if nothing else, someday might have TV/Newspaper commercial(s) with a chess set plus refreshments on coffee table or picnic bench (no people present), with caption reminding people of chess in their childhood (asking if they would they like to brush up in a big way, then give CFC website address);

I think the best way to promote chess is to promote it in public and in the media for free and to spotlight successful youngsters and top players. We don't have any budget for it but the accumulated value of google searches on past articles in the newspaper should not be underestimated.

4. Have CFC President's message to CFC members (like e.g. Kalev Pugi used to write), say in email Newsletter;

We have a president's message to voting members which is published online on the CFC forum.

5. Try to use community TV channels/newspapers across Canada to promote chess; organizers can use these to seek fresh organizers and volunteers, too;
6. Can approach military bases & other places where people regularly gather, to hope for large number of fresh players & organizers;
7. Rated Sections, or even whole events, designed to bring in many newcomers (takes advertising);

We did this for the 2016 Canadian Open and it worked. We created a trophy only under 1200 section and it put us over the top as far as breaking even on the Canadian Open.

8. Occasional membership surveys - e.g. might get niche purchasing tendencies of chess players, which may help get more corporate sponsorship;
9. Perhaps private forum for ordinary CFC members on CFC Discussion Board.

I don't see the benefit of a private forum. The voting members forum makes sense when discussing sensitive stuff. The members of the executive are accessible via email or public forums. We do not really fully use the forums we have now.