Toronto Labour Day Tournament

[John Brown]

Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament

Hi Jean;

I feel if you want a stellar tournament you have to able to afford the losses. I don't think many Organizers make a profit on events and if they do then they are very few.

What I do not feel is that chess players can dictate what they want without providing support. Meaning that if you want an organizer to make a stellar event then the Chess players have to support that event. Yes Organizers should look for sponsors and arrange media etc.
If the organizers just want to hold an event and not make it a stellar event then why do they have to do anything more than advertise the event?
I agree with you that something like the CDN OPEN or CDN CLOSED are stellar events but Labour Day Opens are Local events that should be well attended by local chess players. If the events are well attended then the Organizers should pay the customers. If they are not well attended then the players get the Maximum that the Organizer can afford without having too many losses.
Participation is what makes the local events great not whether you called in the media to provide television coverage because a 90 year old or the Mayor's son is playing in a chess tournament. We all see advertised tournaments and if some elites want to come then Yes organizers should provide services to those elite players. But the elite players have to promote the events once they are coming. Too many times I have seen late IM's come in and expect us to fall over on them. No if the IM enter early and make the event more attractive for media coverage then I'll give them the red carpet. Come late and get minor coverage.

Any tournament I have ever run has been small but I still give back 100% in prize funds and yes I paid for the visiting masters to come but I invited who I wanted.

[Precy Mckoy]

Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Pre-registered List?

Alex ( since I know Bryan doesn't follow ChessTalk ):

The Toronto Labour Day tournament is only 1 1/2 wks. away. Is there going to be a pre-registered list posted on the website or here?

Bob

Hi Bob,

Bryan Lamb (Organizer of Most Toronto Chess Tournaments) doesn't follow chesstalk because he is only keen on
his personal gain and interest! He does not post pre-registered list not until a day before the tournament and does not care at all!

As long as he can recover all his tournament expenses and his guaranteed tournament's organizer
and director fees of his discretion, aside from additional sales gained from bottled spring waters at ridiculous
price of $1.00 or more and other food items similarly priced to name a few, He will always be the biggest winner of
his self-organized tournaments! He can always play around at his easy to manipulate sectional prize funds anyways.

Had any participants have the courage to question the tournament expenses,
organizer's and director's fees and the total collected entries fees? I think, these figures are very important
information you participants need to understand if paying that entry fee is worth that price or will keep you or
pursue you as participants from coming back to his tournament again.

Did you notice that flyer's details?
How come Senior and junior players have discounts? Will it make sense too, that if they win a prize,
it should be discounted too?
Regular players pay adult and similar entry fees, how come the distribution of prizes in the sectional categories
are lower in the lower sections?

Also, Toronto Labour Day had been run long enough that the TD or TO (Tournament Organizer) should have provided
all the chess equipments for his tournaments, but until now, participants still have to bring their own chess
equipments?

The last but not the least, the tournament results and distributed prizes to winners will take at least two weeks
before they will be publish perhaps avoiding early potential complaints or scrituny or whatsoever from the participants?
Or, perhaps if anyone ever bother to ask, it will never be publish at all! It is the responsibility of the organizer to publish this
information ASAP! He just disappeared from the limelight!

Here are some of my observations, maybe you want to add more?

One thing for sure that I have never heard of a positive comments and great appreciation regarding his chess tournaments! Good attendance
to be proud of but other than that, NOTHING!

Think about your three days in the tournament that will be wasted if you did not perform well before going to school or work Pals!

These reflect, True capitalism long before it started!

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Pre-registered List?

How come Senior and junior players have discounts? Will it make sense too, that if they win a prize,
it should be discounted too?
Regular players pay adult and similar entry fees, how come the distribution of prizes in the sectional categories
are lower in the lower sections?

The way you whine someone would think you just won the Canadian Closed!

[John Brown]

Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament

Hi Precy;

I go to the Labour Day Open because I've been going since 1973 I have missed I think 3 in all those years.
I started at Labour day Open because it was just after Fischer & Spassky Match and I saw it advertised in a Chess Canada Magazine with Peter Nurmi's picture on it. I knew nothing about Prize Funds Class Prizes etc. I did not even know the big Elite boys that were there. I did not even care about Prize fund. I went there to PLAY CHESS. It was one of my most enjoyable experiences and I've never looked back. Sure since then I've tried to win Sectional Prizes and I think I cashed in maybe 5 times but I think only First once.
So I could not give a care whether Bryan Lamb makes a fortune on the tournament or not. In those 36 years I have made more chess friends and chess connections than I can count. I can go to other tournaments and there is always someone there I know or they know of me. I have no problem going over games with people. I enjoy looking at games of children to adults. I don't spend alot of time at my games now I like to check out the other players and my friends games because that is what keeps me coming to the Labour Day Open. Yes last year I was lucky to win a First Prize this year I'm up one section so I'm shooting for 50% if I get a Plus score then it's a Bonus if I win a Prize that's a greater Bonus but it's the old friendships and the new friends that I meet at Labour Day that makes me happy.
Oh and if any elites are there well great but to me they are just there.
I really don't care who wins the open but if one of my friends wins hey I'm happier than a lark.
We are very lucky to have a site for the Labour Day Open. The Hall can maybe fit 200 people or more so why not play most chess [layers live in Ontario. You said the Labour Day should supply chess sets etc. Well obviously you do not know the history of loacl tournaments and the Labour Day Open at Macedonian Hall. Bryan Lamb did not run the tournament the First 15 years so why would he have to supply sets all of a sudden.
The Labour Day Open is not a national, Closed or zonal event so why would you even think that sets and clock should be provided.
Personally I don;t like plastic sets , I prefer wood. Chess Clocks are chess clocks once the start they keep track so why worry about them.
Sounds like you want a local event to be a national event. Why not show up and play instead of telling us Chess players what we need to play.

[Jordan S. Berson]

Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Pre-registered List?

"Precy",

Until you start posting with your real name, then your arguments are mere rhetoric. If you are too cowardly to put your own name to your statements, then whatever you say should be treated like the name it comes from: pure fiction.

[Jean Hébert]

Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament

If players turn out because of a big prize based on a number of pre entrants that was projected and then the numbers change who's fault is that? I don't think it is the organizer's fault. He said he'd pay if he got 150 paid entries. So maybe the onus is on the organizer to post his pre registration lists more often so that potential players who want to play for money can see that the numbers have to rise to make the payouts happen.
The players onus is to show up and not complain.
It's numbers that increase prize funds not Organizing.

Hi John,

Let's put it this way. You are a shoe seller and you have gone bankrupt. A first level analysis might go like this. People did not want to buy my shoes, that's why I went bankrupt. It's their fault! This is not untrue. But to really understand the problem, you must go to a level 2 analysis. Why did people fail to buy my shoes and instead bought from my competitors ? Was it lack of advertizing ? Poor display ? Bad service ? Pricing ? Clearly answering such questions is more likely to make you a better salesman in the future than simply blaming the customers. It is about taking responsibility. Organizers working with ungaranteed projected prize funds do not accept financial responsibilities; if they could at least put them on the shoulders of those who don't show up that would be somewhat logical. But actually they put them on the players who do show up and pay the full prize. To me it is not acceptable and a recipe for declining participation.

[Bob Armstrong]

Toronto Labour Day Open - Pre-registered List??

The Toronto Labour Day Open starts this Saturday. I just went to the website, and there is no pre-registered list posted yet.

Any idea when a pre-registered list may be posted? I would like to know what kind of turnout is being generated this year so far. Will notice be given here when it is posted, or will the list be posted here as well? Thanks.

Bob

[John Brown]

Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament

Hi Bob;

Bryan may wait until after the Scarborough Chess Club AGM
But in this case it is close to event regardless. This Thursday I believe.

I'm concerned though. I have had no confirmation on whether he got my cheque as I asked for an email to confirm. I sent the cheque last week.
So yes I too would like to see a pre-registered list as well.

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament

Hi John:

It's true that Scarborough CC AGM is on Thursday, but Bryan is only V-P now, so Maurice takes care of all the AGM matters - shouldn't affect Byan's TLDO.

I noticed today that my cheque hasn't been cashed yet, and I mailed it in August 12 - hope he has it. Hope there's a pre-reg list coming.

Bob

[Steve Karpik]

Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Pre-registered List?

Bryan Lamb (Organizer of Most Toronto Chess Tournaments) doesn't follow chesstalk because he is only keen on his personal gain and interest! He does not post pre-registered list not until a day before the tournament and does not care at all!

There's an awful lot of crap published on this web site and I ignore much of it. Juvenile comments on forums like this one are encouraged by the shield of anonymity that the Internet affords. However, there are limits though and the comments by "Precy Mckoy" (whoever you are) cross those limits and verge on being defamatory and need to be responded to.

No one in Toronto organizes a chess tournament for personal gain. Honestly I don't know why anyone would put themselves through the effort of organizing a tournament. It is an awful lot of work done for people who sometimes lack the grace and good sense to appreciate what is being provided for them.

I am involved in an amateur sport that went through similar attacks on organizers. Like chess this sport is big in Europe so certain individuals wanted things happening just like in Europe (big prizes, big publicity, etc.). So they whined and took cheap shots at the organizers. Eventually they were successful to the point that the organizers decided that they could better be spending their weekends camping or canoeing or whatever -- anything but organizing a competition.

It's a free world here. If someone else can provide a tournament that will outshine what Bryan is organizing for the Toronto chess community, they are completely free to do so. However, I don't see line ups of potential organizers waiting in the wings with big guaranteed prize lists and megapublicity for the victors. In the meantime, chess players in Toronto and other cities that have a Labour Day tournament are lucky to have organizers like Bryan who are willing to give up their long weekend for us to play chess.

I've known Bryan for a number of years and have had the pleasure of helping him run tournaments at the Scarborough Chess Club. Bryan organizes tournaments because of his love for the game. And I think for the most part that Toronto players understand this given how well the tournaments he has TD'ed at have been attended.

[Kerry Liles]

Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Pre-registered List?

There's an awful lot of crap published on this web site and I ignore much of it. Juvenile comments on forums like this one are encouraged by the shield of anonymity that the Internet affords. However, there are limits though and the comments by "Precy Mckoy" (whoever you are) cross those limits and verge on being defamatory and need to be responded to.

...etc

Good point(s) Steve. It is sad that many of the threads here on Chesstalk are hijacked to continue the "debate" about the conditions of the recent Cdn Closed and vaguely related topics...

However, to your point, I think Chris mentioned (obliquely) that Precy McKoy may be a pseudonym and Chris thought he had banned that particular userid... perhaps Chris could take a look at deleting some of the crap entirely?

This board required (still requires?) one to 'sign up' and be approved by the administration. Unfortunately, that apparently doesn't discourage some people from posting some rubbish.

With all the criticism of events going on, it is a wonder there are any events at all.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament

Let's put it this way. You are a shoe seller and you have gone bankrupt. A first level analysis might go like this. People did not want to buy my shoes, that's why I went bankrupt. It's their fault! This is not untrue. But to really understand the problem, you must go to a level 2 analysis. Why did people fail to buy my shoes and instead bought from my competitors ? Was it lack of advertizing ? Poor display ? Bad service ? Pricing ? Clearly answering such questions is more likely to make you a better salesman in the future than simply blaming the customers.

Jean, let's put it this way. You have been a musician for 30+ years and you still can't get people aside from friends and relatives out to your band's gigs. A first level analysis might go like this: The club owner won't hire us for Thursday through Saturday nights. We only get Monday or Tuesday nights when no one is out. The club owner didn't put up signs or advertise, he only does that for the weekend bands. It is the club owner's fault.

But to really understand the problem, you must go to a level 2 analysis: why is the club owner not hiring my band for weekends? Is it because we've been playing this same music for 30+ years and ONLY A SELECT FEW LIKES OUR MUSIC? Could it be that we, the musicians, need to advertise and promote our band, which we have not been doing?

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Pre-registered List?

No one in Toronto organizes a chess tournament for personal gain. Honestly I don't know why anyone would put themselves through the effort of organizing a tournament. It is an awful lot of work done for people who sometimes lack the grace and good sense to appreciate what is being provided for them.

I am involved in an amateur sport that went through similar attacks on organizers. Like chess this sport is big in Europe so certain individuals wanted things happening just like in Europe (big prizes, big publicity, etc.). So they whined and took cheap shots at the organizers. Eventually they were successful to the point that the organizers decided that they could better be spending their weekends camping or canoeing or whatever -- anything but organizing a competition.

Are you listening, Jean Hebert?

[Christopher Mallon]

Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Pre-registered List?

Yeah I rebanned him. Not sure how he got unbanned.

I'm not a big fan of deleting anything unless it's bordering on illegal. I've always been a bit of a packrat.

Anyway, yes, Precy McKoy is a pseudonym and yes I know who it really is and yes that account is banned. (again.)

[Bob Gillanders]

Re: Toronto Labour Day Tournament - Pre-registered List?

......No one in Toronto organizes a chess tournament for personal gain. Honestly I don't know why anyone would put themselves through the effort of organizing a tournament. It is an awful lot of work done for people who sometimes lack the grace and good sense to appreciate what is being provided for them.......
It's a free world here. If someone else can provide a tournament that will outshine what Bryan is organizing for the Toronto chess community, they are completely free to do so. However, I don't see line ups of potential organizers waiting in the wings with big guaranteed prize lists and megapublicity for the victors. In the meantime, chess players in Toronto and other cities that have a Labour Day tournament are lucky to have organizers like Bryan.......
Bryan organizes tournaments because of his love for the game. And I think for the most part that Toronto players understand this given how well the tournaments he has TD'ed at have been attended.

Well said Steve. I know the overwhelming majority of players really do appreciate Bryan's efforts.