Increments vs delay

[Louis Morin]

It depends on what type of clock you're using. On my Chronos I can see the countdowns in progress. I don't know about other clocks.

There is no countdown with my DGT, and probably with several other clocks as well. This alone should be enough not to use the delay, unless organizers use their own good clocks on every board.

[Vadim Tsypin]

I believe, we should have only 2 time controls in Canada: […]

Er, Victor... I would take Maoism over Bolshevism, albeit narrowly. ;-) "Let One Hundred Flowers Bloom", shall we?

[Evan Frangakis]

I also very clearly prefer increments. Interesting that the chess community was not polled on this?

90 minutes + 30sec rarely results in games exceeding 4 hours, which is manageable even for double round days.

Louis Morin's point on time visibility is very much to the point. With increments you know exactly how much time you have left.

Lastly, with delays do we add 30 sec to the starting time control ( ie. 90 min 30 sec for the Mtl. Open) before move 1? Seems to me we should to be consistent. Can someone educated in delays confirm?

[Fred McKim]

Lastly, with delays do we add 30 sec to the starting time control ( ie. 90 min 30 sec for the Mtl. Open) before move 1? Seems to me we should to be consistent. Can someone educated in delays confirm?

Clocks are set at 90 minutes for delay - under older clocks with delay, the setting for 90 minutes may well have shown 90 min 30 sec, when time was added back on only after you pressed your clock (up to 30 seconds).

[Vlad Drkulec]

Yes, but the point is 30 sec. delay vs. 30 sec. increment. Personally, I prefer 30 sec. increment, see my answer on the French forum.

I agree. A 30 second increment means that you can work yourself out of time trouble if you get into it by quickly making a series of forced moves or waiting moves. A delay does not give you that option.

[Ian Anderson]

I think this thread is confusing three types of additional time systems. I am not sure which is referred to as "Increment". There is Bronstein Delay which is added on to time remaining but is not cumulative the way "Bonus" or Fischer Bonus is. If you use less time than a "Bonus" increment, you can accumulate time remaining. Then there is "US Delay" which pauses the clock for the designated delay period. The blue DGT North America chess clocks only show US Delay which pauses the clock for the increment, then starts the countdown. The maroon DGT 2010 clocks use the FIDE standard Bronstein Delay method which adds the delay period to the time remaining and starts the countdown from the moment the button is pressed. Both DGT clocks show the Fischer Bonus system in the same manner. The DGT 3000 offers all three choices in addition to basic time. I am unfamiliar with the makes of other chess clocks and what they are capable of.

[Vadim Tsypin]

Hello All:

At this point, I feel compelled to summarize what I wrote about at length on the French board.

What is colloquially called "delay" is a subtype of an "increment".

"increment: 6.1. An amount of time (from 2 to 60 seconds) added from the start before each move for the player. This can be in either delay or cumulative mode."

Article 6.3.2 enumerates three subtypes of the increment: Cumulative (Fischer), Bronstein and time delay. When rating tournaments, validating norms, calculating rate of play etc., FIDE isn't interested which particular subtype of an increment was used, only that Article 1.13b was observed( e.g., "if delay based, all players must use delay").

When a rating officer of a national federation registers an event on the FIDE server and generates a new event code, there is no difference between "increment" and "time-delay", everything is always entered as "increment", as per 6.1 above.

[Evan Frangakis]

Hi Vadim, paragraph 6.1 reads to me as calling for the 30 sec delay to be added to the starting time before move 1. So the clocks would start at 90 min and 30 sec (for the Mtl. Open). Is this right? Fred Mckim's comments (thanks Fred) point in the other direction with starting time set at 90 minutes only.

[Hugh Brodie]

If I'm not mistaken - the "ideal" clock wpuld start at 90:30. Let's assume 10 moves have been made by White...moves 1 to 9 were each completed in 15 seconds and move 10 in 31 seconds. After pressing his clock after moves 1 to 9 the clock will reset from 90:15 to 90:30..

[Hugh Brodie]

Somehow this reply got sent before I finished. Move 10...the clock will show 89:59 after the move and 90:29 after the press. "Increments" will add 15 seconds to the initial 90:00 each move showing 92:15 before move 10 and 92:14 after move 10.

[Pierre St-Onge]

..Tomorrow Saturday afternoon ... Me and some good Chess friends we will experiment ... the DELAY option on the LEAP clocks ... model no.PQ9903A and PQ9903B and I will give you some news soon!..

[Fred McKim]

Without looking up specific model numbers, I will state again there are two types of delay. The older style adds 30 seconds to the clock automatically, and then gives you time after you move - minimum the time you took to move, maximum the amount of the delay (ie 5 seconds or 30 seconds). What I'll call the modern delay, simply does not start your clock until the delay (ie 5 or 30 seconds is passed). If you move in less time that the delay, you "lose" that time you could have had.

[Fred McKim]

I can understand that players who are prone to time trouble enjoy the possibility of working their way out of time trouble by playing 3 or 4 quick moves (under normal incremental time controls), but I think more natural is remaining in time trouble for the rest of the time control - but having the luxury of at least the delay for each move.

A time control of 2 hours with a 5 second delay (which seems to be in favour in the US), however makes no real sense to me.

[Pierre St-Onge]

.In the end it's only Chess that the incrementation and delay exists ... We do not see that in any other game of skill or in any other sport ??? ... and more we note that chess there are blunders, errors, inaccuracies, dubious and also! and some !! ... anyway if all the chess games were perfect it would end up in a total boredom ... no one would be interested in this game! ... Even when you are going to pass a real test of intelligence an IQ ... you have a time limit and no question of delay or incrementation! ... there are limits to extend the time for reflection! .. and after all these are the same rules for 2 players !. ..Hourra for the concept of delay!..