Do we have an elephant in the room?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post
    I believe I made a comment previously in another thread possibly on the CFC board or on chesstalk about the fact that he had attained the title norms and just had to bring up his rating to get the title.
    Before I posted I did a search on chesstalk and CFC board and I couldn't find your comment. I probably missed it.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post
      . Chesstalk discredits itself when it allows threads which contain personal attacks on decent people to persist. I was not aware of this milestone being reached until Hal Bond informed me when I picked him up on the way to the Canadian Sports Tourism Alliance conference in Ottawa last Monday the 18th of March. I just returned home about an hour and a half ago.
      I cant help but agree Vlad, chess talk has just become a place where its one attack after the other and were givin the occasional tournament notice
      be it at random times or people repeating why someone has done something to assault the original poster, I notice at least 2 or 3 people felt the need to repeat what was already said but in their own poetic way.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Serge Archambault View Post

        You have been told repeatedly and don't seem to want to understand. All your answers can be found in those little sentences I was told a long time ago by a well-known FIDE official. "We, at FIDE, don't care. As long as the National Federation supports the application, we grant the title.". Of course, over the years, some were denied. But not for people that did follow the rules. Your approach to this "problem" is just plain wrong.
        It seems that you are acknowledging that FIDE does NOT have strict title application oversight? If this is the case, Rene's overall point may be quite valid. Of course a GM norm in one tournament may be quite harder to attain than a GM norm in a different tournament with completely different set of players etc. Aside from 'gifted' titles (like automatic IM titles for winning a zonal - or similar exceptions) the path to any title is simple: achieve the required norms and the required rating level and the title is then automatic. End of story.

        I am not sure why Rene chose to highlight Mr. Kang's specific performance UNLESS it was to highlight *his* specific climb to a GM title. From Rene's responses in this thread, it seems he is especially focusing on results in 2018 and 2019 (his emphasis). Others can probably weigh in on whether those performances are "worthy" but the bottom line is that FIDE accepted the results and that is the end of it.

        There are so many GMs that there are obviously weak GMs and super strong GMs and there is a wide range from the bottom to the top of that rather long list...

        I don't understand what Rene means when he says (above) "Nikolay explained it again he is right. I apologize for my mistake." --> what is "it" and what was "my mistake"?
        Rene, I think that requires a much more clear statement...

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Kerry Liles View Post

          It seems that you are acknowledging that FIDE does NOT have strict title application oversight? If this is the case, Rene's overall point may be quite valid. Of course a GM norm in one tournament may be quite harder to attain than a GM norm in a different tournament with completely different set of players etc. Aside from 'gifted' titles (like automatic IM titles for winning a zonal - or similar exceptions) the path to any title is simple: achieve the required norms and the required rating level and the title is then automatic. End of story.

          I am not sure why Rene chose to highlight Mr. Kang's specific performance UNLESS it was to highlight *his* specific climb to a GM title. From Rene's responses in this thread, it seems he is especially focusing on results in 2018 and 2019 (his emphasis). Others can probably weigh in on whether those performances are "worthy" but the bottom line is that FIDE accepted the results and that is the end of it.

          There are so many GMs that there are obviously weak GMs and super strong GMs and there is a wide range from the bottom to the top of that rather long list...

          I don't understand what Rene means when he says (above) "Nikolay explained it again he is right. I apologize for my mistake." --> what is "it" and what was "my mistake"?
          Rene, I think that requires a much more clear statement...
          I agree when you say there are some weaker GMs but its mostly due the fact that after they attain their GM title they lose that drive to maintain high standards the they've reached such a point in chess. an example of this I find is Simon Williams he doesn't play much anymore but following his online ratings he cant seem to maintain over 2250 for extended periods of time, I believe has just lost this drive that most GMs in this predicament lose swell

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Kerry Liles View Post

            I don't understand what Rene means when he says (above) "Nikolay explained it again he is right. I apologize for my mistake." --> what is "it" and what was "my mistake"?
            Rene, I think that requires a much more clear statement...
            Originally posted by Nikolay Noritsyn View Post
            He was wondering why there were so few 'congratulations' messages and thought maybe everyone knows something he doesn't, so he did his investigation on fide.com. Like this thread shows, it seems he was wrong.. nobody knows anything.
            See the bold text

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Kerry Liles View Post

              It seems that you are acknowledging that FIDE does NOT have strict title application oversight? If this is the case, Rene's overall point may be quite valid. Of course a GM norm in one tournament may be quite harder to attain than a GM norm in a different tournament with completely different set of players etc. Aside from 'gifted' titles (like automatic IM titles for winning a zonal - or similar exceptions) the path to any title is simple: achieve the required norms and the required rating level and the title is then automatic. End of story.

              I am not sure why Rene chose to highlight Mr. Kang's specific performance UNLESS it was to highlight *his* specific climb to a GM title. From Rene's responses in this thread, it seems he is especially focusing on results in 2018 and 2019 (his emphasis). Others can probably weigh in on whether those performances are "worthy" but the bottom line is that FIDE accepted the results and that is the end of it.

              There are so many GMs that there are obviously weak GMs and super strong GMs and there is a wide range from the bottom to the top of that rather long list...

              I don't understand what Rene means when he says (above) "Nikolay explained it again he is right. I apologize for my mistake." --> what is "it" and what was "my mistake"?
              Rene, I think that requires a much more clear statement...
              Well, a lot of things could be said about the original post. But to be honest, I'm not sure going through and seemingly accepting a system for years and then, once you get what you wanted, complain about it, gives credibility to his case. The system has been working exactly that way for many many decades. We all know numerous cases that have existed in the past. The same way Rene's post would have been much more credible, had he decided to take himself and his FA title as an example. But at the end of the day, in almost all cases, these posts happen, and people believe there is something wrong with the system when they give an importance to titles that doesn't exist. That is why in my original post I put the word "problem" between brackets. He may not realize it now but from my point of view, Rene should be happy in this specific situation. It helps Razvan.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Henri Hughes View Post

                I cant help but agree Vlad, chess talk has just become a place where its one attack after the other and were givin the occasional tournament notice
                be it at random times or people repeating why someone has done something to assault the original poster, I notice at least 2 or 3 people felt the need to repeat what was already said but in their own poetic way.
                Hello Henri,

                I don't know Mr Yang. Never met him, never even heard of him. I tend to support those I know. I've had the chance to see the progression (since they were kids) of strong players like Alexandre Lesiège, Pascal Charbonneau, Mark Bluvshtein, Thomas Roussel-Roozmon, and many many others. Some of those players were stronger than others. They all decided to quit chess AND never write on Chesstalk (some of them used to in the past). Same here; chess hasn't the importance it used to have in my life. Very often, when I come on Chesstalk, I feel the same way I feel when I go to FADOQ events.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Serge Archambault View Post

                  Hello Henri,

                  I don't know Mr Yang. Never met him, never even heard of him. I tend to support those I know. I've had the chance to see the progression (since they were kids) of strong players like Alexandre Lesiège, Pascal Charbonneau, Mark Bluvshtein, Thomas Roussel-Roozmon, and many many others. Some of those players were stronger than others. They all decided to quit chess AND never write on Chesstalk (some of them used to in the past). Same here; chess hasn't the importance it used to have in my life. Very often, when I come on Chesstalk, I feel the same way I feel when I go to FADOQ events.
                  chess still is important to my life and is a big part of it. thats why I find all of this disappointing

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    This thread has become very emotional, so I don't want to reply to many people who posted here. I am replying mostly to Alex Ferreira, who provided a logical and interesting reply.

                    1. About playing in Canada or abroad.

                    No doubt, it's much easier to get norms and rating outside of Canada. In the 15 years during which I have been playing chess in Canada, I do not remember any player achieving all his GM norms and 2500 FIDE rating exclusively in Canada. USA provides more opportunities and a slightly friendlier (rating-wise) environment, Europe provides a significantly friendlier environment.

                    Taking myself as an example, in the last 4 years, I have played 7 tournaments in Europe (4 Gibraltars, 1 Reykjavik and 2 senior events) and gained rating every time. 7 out of 7 cannot be explained by better preparation, better shape or some other psychological reasons. It's much easier to gain rating in Europe compared to the very difficult deflationary environment here in Canada.

                    Having said that, I don't see anything wrong in getting all or most GM requirements by playing mostly or even exclusively in Europe. Many players did it (Aman Hambleton is probably the most famous out of them) and it's absolutely OK.

                    2. Round-robin events.

                    Again, round-robin provides better chances to get norms. Why? Mostly, because of the last 2-3 rounds. In Swiss tournaments, if you have chances to get a GM norm (or even an IM norm) you are paired against opponents who also want to achieve something in this event. In RR, it's a very possible scenario that you play against an opponent who completely lost interest in this tournament.

                    Actually, this problem exists on every level, even in a Candidate tournament. Players who have no chance sometimes provide a very little resistance to leaders (Caruana-Aronian game can be a good example).

                    Again, I do not see anything wrong with getting norms in RR events. No doubt, RR tournaments in Alberta, and recently in Quebec were fair and good events.

                    Having said that, I do have a problem with RR tournaments in Eastern Europe, which have a notoriously bad reputation.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post

                      If there is then maybe we could lock up RP there and throw away the key.
                      Tell me more about " I'm talking about simple, ordinary, everyday human decency and courtesy."

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by David Ottosen View Post

                        Tell me more about " I'm talking about simple, ordinary, everyday human decency and courtesy."
                        Ah David, dear kind Pete still has to figure out the thread's elephantine holes in his circular logic :)
                        https://imgur.com/r/seinfeldgifs/0ywafhu

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post

                          Nikolay, how do you feel about how K. Yang was treated? The link is an interesting fyi.


                          https://en.chessbase.com/post/mr-fir...gy-in-budapest
                          Interesting article containing a who's who of the chess world. Rajlich of Rybka fame used to play in the Detroit Metro League. Caruana managed to tie Magnus Carlsen in the regular games before losing in the rapid tiebreak games in a world championship.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by David Ottosen View Post

                            Tell me more about " I'm talking about simple, ordinary, everyday human decency and courtesy."
                            Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post
                            If there is then maybe we could lock up RP there and throw away the key.
                            You're right, David. It was hypocritical of me to make that remark. I apologize to Rene Preotu for making it.
                            "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
                            "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
                            "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

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