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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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Jean you remind me of my old economics professor when he told us how Rolls Royce sold more cars by raising its price ;)
Applying this car metaphor to chess I guess the idea is we should project the image of a top ten player like a BMW or Porsche not an economy car...
Garvin,
I will ask you just one question: what kind of night out do you get nowadays for 3$ ? ( I mean besides the one where you get to play chess against an International master...)
I will ask you just one question: what kind of night out do you get nowadays for 3$ ? ( I mean besides the one where you get to play chess against an International master...)
Well I actually pay less than 3 dollars since I have a club membership. For that I get 12 hours of chess every Friday.
I am near an art gallery which has free admission, although I suppose I could spend the 3 dollars on a veggie dog from the street vendor before going in...
I think for the novice the poster lacks information how long it could take to finish a game. (it is even hard to estimate without a knowledge of an approximate boards' number)
To me, too high or too low are both unreasonable. Too high, people don't come, too low people may come (some people will think that since it is cheap it is not worth much and will not come anyway!) but when you will try to charge them a fair price for what they get, they will back down. To be cheap is fine for Dollarama, but not for all types of goods and services.
Jean Hébert will be giving a simul in Montreal on Sat. Sept. 19, 1 pm.
Address: 9930 Parthenais (Ahuntsic Chess Club)
Cost: $10 (free for Club members).
I will ask [Garvin] just one question: what kind of night out do you get nowadays for 3$ ? ( I mean besides the one where you get to play chess against an International master...)
You can play against IM Artiom Samsonkin in a simul for $3, which is exactly $3 more than the Ahuntsic Chess Club charges its members to play against MI Jean Hébert in a simul.
Is free too low and unreasonable, Mr. Hébert?
Either you believe it is unreasonable and you not living what you preach (which will come as a big shock to all ), or it is reasonable and then your whole argument was for naught.
You have a right to make a living and charge the price or a fee (whichever is appropriate) you want.
An organization has the right to charge whatever it wants to promote its activities or to thank its members.
You can play against IM Artiom Samsonkin in a simul for $3, which is exactly $3 more than the Ahuntsic Chess Club charges its members to play against MI Jean Hébert in a simul.
Is free too low and unreasonable, Mr. Hébert?
Club members pay yearly dues to get services. If this includes my simul, it is fine with me. I have given many simuls in public places (like shopping malls) free for the public. Then you don't want to charge people because you adress very casual players and potential new customers. These simuls are usually sponsored by the mall.
In a chess club, things are a bit different. Players there can usually appreciate (at least they should!) the opportunity they get in playing a GM or an IM.
But my point was somewhat more philosophical. What is such a simul actually worth ? Is it less than a movie at the theater, on a par with a veggie dog as Mr Nunes put it ?
Club members pay yearly dues to get services. If this includes my simul, it is fine with me.
First of all, kudos to Daniel Rouleau for the egg on Hebert's face! I especially liked the part that goes "you not living what you preach (which will come as a big shock to all)". Looks like Mr. Hebert has a reputation for hypocrisy. Surprise!
Mr. Hebert, when club members pay their dues, simuls against IMs or better are not what they are paying for nor what they expect to receive. Therefore, as Daniel succinctly states, your entire argument is for naught, because now you state that no extra charge is fine with you, where you originally stated $3 was too low and unreasonable.
But my point was somewhat more philosophical. What is such a simul actually worth ? Is it less than a movie at the theater, on a par with a veggie dog as Mr Nunes put it ?
Like all other products and services, it's worth what the market will bear.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
Mr. Hebert, when club members pay their dues, simuls against IMs or better are not what they are paying for nor what they expect to receive.
How would you know ? What do you know about this particular club ? You don't live in Canada (same for Rouleau, what a coincidence...) and you are not even a chess player. Simuls at the Ahuntsic Chess Club are fairly common, at least one or two every year. Members are used to it.
You don't live in Canada (same for Rouleau, what a coincidence...)
Mr. Hébert,
I chose to move to a country where my skills and talents are well rewarded rather than criticize my country of birth (and citizenship) for its "failure" to recognize the "fair" value of said skills and talents.
I had the option to stay and start my own company but I am risk-adverse and I chose the safest option. It was, in my specific case, a rational economic decision.
Living in Canada does not appear a rational economic decision if someone wants to become a professional chess player playing primarily in Canada.
However, it can be the right emotional decision.
But having made the decision, would it not be proper to accept the consequences of your decision and try to help yourself (financially) by helping develop a larger customer base?
It appears you chose another approach for the past 30+ years.
How many organizers have you criticized over the years, Mr. Hébert? Is it possible this constant criticism have chased many actual and potential organizers from the chess scene? How many boot lickers like Mr. Bilodeau have jumped on the bandwagon and contributed to the wonderful atmosphere always present in the canadian chess scene?
I chose to move to a country where my skills and talents are well rewarded rather than criticize my country of birth (and citizenship) for its "failure" to recognize the "fair" value of said skills and talents (...)
Well, never too late for that isn't it ? Anyways your post is completely off topic. I doubt that anybody cares about why you moved to the US and I am surely not one of them.
Re: Would you like to play an International Master?
Why are people arguing about the price, if you have internet access you can easily find out that artiom is one of the top rated players in Canada so there is no doubt you will get a good game from him. The title IM should be enough to get attention no matter the price.
...But my point was somewhat more philosophical. What is such a simul actually worth ? Is it less than a movie at the theater, on a par with a veggie dog as Mr Nunes put it ?
Jean have you ever had a veggie dog in downtown Toronto or Hamilton? They are pretty darn good.
Why are people arguing about the price, if you have internet access you can easily find out that artiom is one of the top rated players in Canada so there is no doubt you will get a good game from him. The title IM should be enough to get attention no matter the price.
Adam I completely agree with you.
And just to let you all know Artiom has been promised a set fee no matter how much or how little money the club takes in on Friday.
Why don't you all come down and give him a run for his....well come to Hamilton this Friday evening for a good game!
Re: Would you like to play an International Master?
While we on a price theme:
What is a normal price for the titled player (IM or GM) to perform the simul? (at this moment I am not hiring anyone for a simul :)
While we on a price theme:
What is a normal price for the titled player (IM or GM) to perform the simul? (at this moment I am not hiring anyone for a simul :)
I doubt there is a "normal" price (as in a set or expected price) but I imagine some people may be willing to reveal what is customary... perhaps they will not reveal the negotiated prices since that might tend to undermine future negotiations for everyone.
I would expect GM and super-GM players would expect a pretty decent fee for a simul-lecture? I would think that 'regular GMs' would start at about $500 for a 1-1.5 hour lecture and a 20-player simul (so we are talking about approx 6 or 7 hours real working time at least). For super-GM level, assuming you can attract one of them, I would expect you need corporate sponsorship since the starting price might be closer to $5000.
Anyone with specifics can jump right in and confirm or refute my speculation (and that is all it is...)
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), or it is reasonable and then your whole argument was for naught.
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