Vaccine Pre-Requisite

[Kerry Liles]

Masks are a virtue signal and virtually useless in stopping the spread. One health professional likened it to putting up a chain link fence and hoping that it would keep mosquitoes out.

What did that "health professional" suggest then?

And I mean for the here and now - not the tired old 'we should have closed the borders earlier - or we should have added hydroxychloroquine to Canadian beer' etc.

[Peter McKillop]

Masks are a virtue signal and virtually useless in stopping the spread. One health professional likened it to putting up a chain link fence and hoping that it would keep mosquitoes out.

Oops! I think you've got that one backwards, Vlad. Refusal to wear a mask signals a selfish asshole who is unwilling to do something that causes him/her no harm but which public health authorities say is preventatively beneficial for the health of others. And don't bother replying with links to conspiracy sites. If you object to what I'm saying then provide a link to a Canadian public health official who backs up your position. Canadian!! Don't bother linking to some gun-toting, bourbon-swilling American dumbass.

Hey that reminds me, a few weeks ago you were crtical of some of the media sites where I get news. I asked you to name some of the sites where you get your news. You haven't provided that information yet. Why not? Embarrassed?

[Peter McKillop]

Obviously, my point is that you do. For example, would you support Air Canada refusing to allow a passenger who did not have proof of vaccination (assuming that it was properly warned at ticket purchase time that you would not be allowed to board without such proof)?

Yes, I would support AC (assuming we're talking about a vaccine that is safe and effective). It wasn't that long ago in Ontario that, with very few exceptions, parents had to prove that their kids' vaccinations and boosters were up to date or have their children face suspension from school. One of the exemptions was for members of religions that prohibit vaccination. You know, the people who think their god will protect them and their children from disease but who teach their children to look both ways before crossing a street?

[Dilip Panjwani]

One health professional likened it to putting up a chain link fence and hoping that it would keep mosquitoes out.

If the mosquitoes are attached to big blocks of something, the chain link fence would work (SARSCOV2 is carried on droplets).

[David Ottosen]

Masks are a virtue signal and virtually useless in stopping the spread. One health professional likened it to putting up a chain link fence and hoping that it would keep mosquitoes out.

So...you choose to listen to the one health professional saying that instead of the literally thousands of other health professionals saying the opposite?

https://youtu.be/Cxqca4RQd_M?t=283

[Garland Best]

What do people think about making vaccination a pre-requisite to entering a chess tournament, at least
until we have confirmation that herd immunity has been achieved?

I just can't see this as being viable or enforceable. It's too draconian. While I disagree with those on this board about the best way to address the Covid-19 issue, we cannot force people to take the vaccine any more than we can force them to immunize their children from measles. And some people cannot take vaccines for medical reasons, such as pregnant or nursing mothers, possibly children. Some people - the least vulnerable to the disease - will be the last to get immunized.

And who are we protecting? The people who already had the vaccine? They are already protected. This idea would merely further ostracize those already being scorned by the general public.

I think the best measures we can take as organizers during the vaccination stage (assuming we will run tournaments) would be to provide as hygienic an environment as possible. This would include having hand sanitizer available, cleaning clocks, boards and pieces between games, encouraging wearing of masks, and so on. In terms of preventing persons from playing, I would be in favor of having a persons exhibiting symptoms of contagious illness - Covid or otherwise - being told not to play. I personally hate playing an opponent who obviously has a cold.

[David Ottosen]

This idea would merely further ostracize those already being scorned by the general public

This is a good thing.

[Roger Patterson]

I just can't see this as being viable or enforceable. It's too draconian. While I disagree with those on this board about the best way to address the Covid-19 issue, we cannot force people to take the vaccine any more than we can force them to immunize their children from measles. And some people cannot take vaccines for medical reasons, such as pregnant or nursing mothers, possibly children. Some people - the least vulnerable to the disease - will be the last to get immunized.

And who are we protecting? The people who already had the vaccine? They are already protected. This idea would merely further ostracize those already being scorned by the general public.

I think the best measures we can take as organizers during the vaccination stage (assuming we will run tournaments) would be to provide as hygienic an environment as possible. This would include having hand sanitizer available, cleaning clocks, boards and pieces between games, encouraging wearing of masks, and so on. In terms of preventing persons from playing, I would be in favor of having a persons exhibiting symptoms of contagious illness - Covid or otherwise - being told not to play. I personally hate playing an opponent who obviously has a cold.

more to the point, from what I read, epidemiologists are not in favour of vaccine passports because it leads to people improperly estimating the risks of their behaviour. Chess tournaments for vaccinated people being an example. With a 95% effectiveness rate, that is still 5-10 people at the tournament who are not immune. If COVID is still prevalent in the community, those people will be exposed and eventually get COVID. If you are say 70 odd years old and happen to be in the 5% that don't take up immunity from the vaccine, you face a 20% or so death rate. That's a bad deal.

The epidemiologist view of when "normal" activities can resume is when COVID is no longer prevalent in the community because herd immunity has been achieved. A vaccine passport is not required then because well, herd immunity. Taking up social activities with other vaccinated people before herd immunity is achieved is not safe, vaccine passport or not.

[Vlad Drkulec]

I just can't see this as being viable or enforceable. It's too draconian. While I disagree with those on this board about the best way to address the Covid-19 issue, we cannot force people to take the vaccine any more than we can force them to immunize their children from measles. And some people cannot take vaccines for medical reasons, such as pregnant or nursing mothers, possibly children. Some people - the least vulnerable to the disease - will be the last to get immunized.

And who are we protecting? The people who already had the vaccine? They are already protected. This idea would merely further ostracize those already being scorned by the general public.

I think the best measures we can take as organizers during the vaccination stage (assuming we will run tournaments) would be to provide as hygienic an environment as possible. This would include having hand sanitizer available, cleaning clocks, boards and pieces between games, encouraging wearing of masks, and so on. In terms of preventing persons from playing, I would be in favor of having a persons exhibiting symptoms of contagious illness - Covid or otherwise - being told not to play. I personally hate playing an opponent who obviously has a cold.

You cannot force people to get a vaccination but neither can they force you to let them in your tournament without a vaccination. Anyway it is silly for us to argue this point. The government is going to decide the rules for any gatherings including chess tournaments.

[Vlad Drkulec]

So...you choose to listen to the one health professional saying that instead of the literally thousands of other health professionals saying the opposite?

https://youtu.be/Cxqca4RQd_M?t=283

Those were the same health professionals who said masks were not useful before they said they were.

If masks worked, we would have beat the virus. I wear mine whenever I am out in public but I am not stupid enough to think that it offers any protection. No one else should be under that illusion. The virus is spreading not because people are not wearing masks. It is spreading because that's what a virus does. I do get irritated when people violate social distancing which they do all the time.

From a Peter approved media source:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fa...ic/ar-BB16P84e

The executive summary: Fauci doesn't mind lying to you regardless of what he believes to be true at the time.

[Neil Frarey]

If masks worked,

They do work. Masks are meant to keep droplets inside the mask. They act as a barrier for spraying out droplets. Not as a shield from preventing droplets from coming in.

But I do think those clear acrylic panels are almost a complete waste. Air circulation goes in all directions...

“These barriers are designed to prevent large spray-born droplets, which are released when someone talks loudly or coughs at close range,” she told me. “But you also have to account for the smaller particles that can go around the plexiglass barrier and stay airborne for longer periods of time, which someone can still inhale.”

...that's why people should wear a mask! Keep as much of those 'large spray-born droplets' inside the mask as possible.

[Lucas Davies]

Those were the same health professionals who said masks were not useful before they said they were.

If masks worked, we would have beat the virus. I wear mine whenever I am out in public but I am not stupid enough to think that it offers any protection. No one else should be under that illusion. The virus is spreading not because people are not wearing masks. It is spreading because that's what a virus does. I do get irritated when people violate social distancing which they do all the time.

That's like saying that seatbelts don't work because people still die in car accidents. Masks don't eliminate the spread of the virus; they mitigate it, and if everyone consistently wears them when appropriate, it significantly reduces the spread. Even if they did have 100% effectiveness then we still wouldn't have beaten the virus because of the enormous number of people who refuse to wear them. You can easily find multiple meta-analyses that show the effectiveness of masks, e.g. https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...77893920302301

[Dilip Panjwani]

Herd immunity is well on its way in the US...should be achieved in early 2021...

[Bob Gillanders]

Herd immunity is well on its way in the US...should be achieved in early 2021...

Well, it's early 2021 now, and yesterday (Jan 1) numbers reported

USA
new cases 166,044
new deaths 2,129

Canada
new cases 2,129
new deaths - none

being a holiday, it is likely numbers for Jan 1 are underreported?

Can you give us your benchmark numbers for achieving herd immunity?
When will Canada achieve herd immunity?

[Dilip Panjwani]

Can you give us your benchmark numbers for achieving herd immunity?

Fauci says 70% immune could be considered herd immunity for COVID19.
So given the rapidly rising percentage of those already infected once, multiplied by a factor to account for untested infected cases, and the fast pace of vaccination expected, all bode well for a big OTB chess tournament in the USA in mid 2021...